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How old are you? If you are an angry teenager who hasnt thought about things very hard then fine, I can live with that. It worries me if you are a grown member of society. These violent, black and white views on justice that you have will fester and breed further violence.
I love the way how you post something in this thread and people want to start questioning your psyche or moral outlook. I didn't ask for a debate or psychoanalysis. I just put forward my point of view of what I think should happen with these people. I don't give a flying fuck what others think of that view
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The declared point of prison is primarily to segragate people whilst they are rehabilitated- at which point they are returned to society, debt paid and ready to be a productive member once more.
Not always. In many countries there are prisoners guilty of the most heinous of crimes but whose own interest group not only condones the crimes but celebrates them. Smashing a 4 year old little girls skull with a rock after killing her father is what gets you a big party and ...
Or raping little boys.. or castrating Olympic athletes.. The more shockfull the better and the higher the standing the crime has within its community.. In prison there is no rehabiliation, no debt is being paid.. For their societies they were most productive with their crimes.. killing not what they see as humans but as a parasite to their cultural body. What did Abbas-- hardly a radical--- say just last week? "Not a single Jew will be tolerated to live in Palestine".
The attack in Woolwich? To Michael Adebolajo's cohorts he's a hero and the media attention its recieved "highly productive"... And EDL hooligans burning down a Mosque or "Paki-Bashing"?
Is it really about being a "productive member" of society? Were not all the SS concentration guards productive? There job was to kill as many people as they could while extracting as much weath as they could. The perversions, rapings and substance abuse? Just perks (recall the Nazi movement was founded with an abundance of pederasts and drug addicts in its leadership) ... How about the bosses and managers that ran the slave and death machine? Fritz Te Mer, for example, was a board member of I.G.Farben and responsible--- after proving himself in managing the production of poison gas--- for the I.G.–Farben-Werks at Auschwitz. In this capacity he was intimately involved in the management of human experiements such as those by Josef Mengele (his experiments were financed by I.G. Farben through Te Mer).
On trial, what did Te Mer say?
„Den Häftlingen ist dadurch kein besonderes Leid zugefügt worden, da man sie ohnedies getötet hätte.“ (the prisoners did not experience any particular pain as they were anyway to be exterminated)
He was sentenced to 7 years but got out in 2 for "good behaviour".. And as soon as the law allowed be joined the board of Bayer where he became its CEO in 1956--- Allied law Nr35 which forbid convicted war criminals from holding the post of CEO was rescinded.
Bayer officially presents him as a role model and offered scholarships in his name... Friz Te Mer always a productive member of his society... or Friedrich Flick or Gunter and Herbert Quandt (BMW)--- Goebels adopted Madga's son, Harald Quandt and the Quandts got a lot of SS support to become one of Germany's largest arms tycoons and even operate their own private slave labour concentration camps--- or... -
Godwinned.
Not always. In many countries there are prisoners guilty of the most heinous of crimes but whose own interest group not only condones the crimes but celebrates them. Smashing a 4 year old little girls skull with a rock after killing her father is what gets you a big party and ...
Or raping little boys.. or castrating Olympic athletes.. The more shockfull the better and the higher the standing the crime has within its community.. In prison there is no rehabiliation, no debt is being paid.. For their societies they were most productive with their crimes.. killing not what they see as humans but as a parasite to their cultural body. What did Abbas-- hardly a radical--- say just last week? "Not a single Jew will be tolerated to live in Palestine".
The attack in Woolwich? To Michael Adebolajo's cohorts he's a hero and the media attention its recieved "highly productive"... And EDL hooligans burning down a Mosque or "Paki-Bashing"?
Is it really about being a "productive member" of society? Were not all the SS concentration guards productive? There job was to kill as many people as they could while extracting as much weath as they could. The perversions, rapings and substance abuse? Just perks (recall the Nazi movement was founded with an abundance of pederasts and drug addicts in its leadership) ... How about the bosses and managers that ran the slave and death machine? Fritz Te Mer, for example, was a board member of I.G.Farben and responsible--- after proving himself in managing the production of poison gas--- for the I.G.–Farben-Werks at Auschwitz. In this capacity he was intimately involved in the management of human experiements such as those by Josef Mengele (his experiments were financed by I.G. Farben through Te Mer).
On trial, what did Te Mer say?
„Den Häftlingen ist dadurch kein besonderes Leid zugefügt worden, da man sie ohnedies getötet hätte.“ (the prisoners did not experience any particular pain as they were anyway to be exterminated)
He was sentenced to 7 years but got out in 2 for "good behaviour".. And as soon as the law allowed be joined the board of Bayer where he became its CEO in 1956--- Allied law Nr35 which forbid convicted war criminals from holding the post of CEO was rescinded.
Bayer officially presents him as a role model and offered scholarships in his name... Friz Te Mer always a productive member of his society... or Friedrich Flick or Gunter and Herbert Quandt (BMW)--- Goebels adopted Madga's son, Harald Quandt and the Quandts got a lot of SS support to become one of Germany's largest arms tycoons and even operate their own private slave labour concentration camps--- or... -
I thought it was rather obvious, really.
Using the Nazi's as an example of how a civilised society treats it's prisoners is a bit of a stretch, I would suggest.
That said incivility is rife, the IT bloke at my old place of work told me quite calmly that he and his mates used to pick one Friday per month to go "queer bashing, as it was accepted as a bit of fun in those days, mind you sometimes we did fuck 'em up quite badly".
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He's got a lot of class, another direct quote:
"I've always hated blacks and paki's, criminals the lot of them, mind my daughter wouldn't believe me, but now she's been working in the met for a few years she's come round- she knows all blacks are criminals now, sees it everyday she does"
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how do you turn that sort of mindset around, or how do you limit the damage inflicted (to children etc)?
is this an example of how making something socially unacceptable - even if it doesn't change someone's mindset at all, and in many cases makes them resentful - is a way of minimising damage (number of queers bashed)? -
What was interesting was that despite his views his daughter was, to a fair degree I think, in conflict with him until she'd been working for the Police for a few years, after which she accepted his racist views as her own. Tells you something about the culture of the Met, I suspect.
He did/does accept that queer bashing is no longer socially acceptable, but that's a long way from accepting that it is in anyway wrong- he'd probably not piss against his neighbours front door for the same reasons.
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It doesn't require any kind of deep thinking. All you need to observe is the 'Golden Rule' of ethics. .
As a sado-masochist only some people are happy for me to "do unto them..."
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Using the Nazi's as an example of how a civilised society treats it's prisoners is a bit of a stretch, I would suggest.
Actually I was refering to how a society treats its NAZI prisoners.
Fritz Te Mer only served 2 years and even during those 2 years-- others like Flick were immediately pardoned thus serving no time and Quandts were not even tried---- he had a weath of perks. His experience with poison gas fabrication, slave labour and medical experiments made him quasi a "most valuable player"...Samir Kuntar went hunting at random to inflict pain and death on Jews. He crushed the skull of a little girl by bashing his rife butt against the little girls head and stones. Sounds like a horrific crime? For the crime he is a hero in Lebanon. Syrian (still)president Bashar Assad presented Kuntar with a Syrian medal in 2008 and and in 2009 he was honored by Iranian (now ex)President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
“*Dear brothers, we must not forget to nurse our children and grandchildren on hatred towards those Zionists and Jews.*”--- (ex Egyptian President) Mohamed Morsi (Jan 2010)
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Not enough in my opinion
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-23544717I shall eagerly await news of their brutalisation or death in the coming years
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Average cost per year per prisoner is ~£40,000.
I would imagine that this pair will be more expensive as they'll need to be segregated from the rest of the population, so call it £60,000/year.
60 years worth of bird between them, so £3,600,000 to incarcerate them.
That's quite a lot.
Seems a shame that we pay all that money just to keep people in a cell, I would suggest that we would be better off as a whole society if we could try to reduce that cost, and create some value.
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@Platini
How old are you? If you are an angry teenager who hasnt thought about things very hard then fine, I can live with that. It worries me if you are a grown member of society. These violent, black and white views on justice that you have will fester and breed further violence.