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@Dandy
Nope. I don't need another set of tubs, and these are road wheels. The rims are 450+ but, more than a light wheelset I wanted a decent set of clinchers that I can train, race on and repair/replace bits relatively easily. I already had the rims (if I was buying new would get 270's or Stans Alpha but heyho). The hubs and spokes at trade also make them much cheaper than factory built alternatives (rs80 et al). When I get cat 2 I will get some more carbon tubs. But for now these will suit fine.