Social ride etiquette

This is about forum rides in town such as Ride East, or the Guinness ride, where people may enjoy it more if everyone stuck together, where people wish to chat between stops, where some people may not know the route and wish to ensure they get there, where drivers may be happy to wait behind or give up on their right of way occasionally for the safety and integrity of the riders.

Some questions.
For each scenario what would best keep the group together? (I am assuming that there is a safety and social value in doing so)

A.On approaching a red light and 1 or 2 drivers are at the lights, is it better to get in front of the drivers, to the asl (where there is room for half of the group), or wait behind?

B. You are at the back of the group riding along a single lane road. There is a driver behind. Is it better to yell 'Car Back' and move left to let the driver past, or to move right and prevent the driver passing with a wave and a smile?

C. The group is turning through a T-junction and almost through apart from the last few people and a driver comes along the main road. Is it better to request politely that the driver gives up their right of way by corking so the last few riders get through or better for the riders to wait and to let the driver go?

D. If the group need to turn right or move to the right hand lane or turn right. The front rider signals right and you are sweeping at the rear, do you follow the line or move, even before the front rider, to prevent drivers overtaking?

E. You are a confident fast rider. Are you best placed riding at the front or rear of the group?

It would be good to agree some principles for more efficient, fun social urban group riding.

It depends how much people had to drink.

True.
F. You note a fellow rider is quite drunk. Do you pass them to get ahead or ride with them to their right ensuring drivers pass them wide in case they wobble?

If it's Ian, I ride behind.

A = wait behind
B is dependent on the road conditions ahead
C = cork
D = before to ensure a car doen't fill that space
E = if they are helping with the ride they should be at the front ready to drop to guard intersections or indicate turns that people may miss

Most people who go on rides aren't equipped for the strategic on the fly thinking needed to ensure a large group gets to where they are going safely.
They don't tend to think ahead or look out for each other.

That is why a good pre-ride briefing, delegation of responsibility and the occasional telling off is needed.

Not bad though for A I would wait behind in the queue rather than filter. And E. Faster riders should be encouraged to stay at the back unless coming forward to cork or slower prople will drop off the back.

This is about forum rides in town such as Ride East, or the Guinness ride, where people may enjoy it more if everyone stuck together, where people wish to chat between stops, where some people may not know the route and wish to ensure they get there, where drivers may be happy to wait behind or give up on their right of way occasionally for the safety and integrity of the riders. ...

Incidentally:

Ride East is about 4/5's off the road
Stops frequently
Socially paced and measured
Beautifully scenic with no hills(unless we decide to climb the Beckton Alps)
Is enjoyed immensely by all who have been lucky enough to attend
You get to go on a fucking ship

It is probably the best ride on this forum

Not bad though for A I would wait behind in the queue rather than filter. And E. Faster riders should be encouraged to stay at the back unless coming forward to cork or slower prople will drop off the back.

Yeah, misread that - wait behind is the sensible option, but even when you tell people not to do it somebody always wants to filter.

It further breaks the group when the lights change.

If you are in control of the group no-one will pass you.

It is a ride leaders job to set the pace and call the stops.

Perhaps not shunned news member who wanted to join the ride as well?

Last coffee ride, my girlfriend and her two friends were shunned by a lots of you, and left behind at a red light unable to keep up without RLJing.

If you are in control of the group no-one will pass you.

It is a ride leaders job to set the pace and call the stops.

All true and would be good if all riders had some idea of what to do. Once we have brainstormed here I'll get a sticky thread up with some guidelines

Answers based on experience of 100s of club rides. Others' experiences may be completely different.

A.On approaching a red light and 1 or 2 drivers are at the lights, is it better to get in front of the drivers, to the asl (where there is room for half of the group), or wait behind?
If everybody waits behind, the group stays together. If a few riders filter to the front the group is split in two. When the light changes, the cars get stuck behind the front group and the rear group is stuck behind the cars. Once the car finally gets past the front group the people in the rear group have to drill it to close the gap

B. You are at the back of the group riding along a single lane road. There is a driver behind. Is it better to yell 'Car Back' and move left to let the driver past, or to move right and prevent the driver passing with a wave and a smile?
Warn the group verbally and move left. Moving right may annoy the driver, they sometimes get irate and start beeping and/or try to force their way past. Whereas if they see you've acknowledged their presence and made the effort to move left, they usually wait patiently.

C. The group is turning through a T-junction and almost through apart from the last few people and a driver comes along the main road. Is it better to request politely that the driver gives up their right of way by corking so the last few riders get through or better for the riders to wait and to let the driver go?
Cork it, otherwise the last few riders have to drill it to catch up, or they get dropped if the rest of the group doesn't slow down and wait

D. If the group need to turn right or move to the right hand lane or turn right. The front rider signals right and you are sweeping at the rear, do you follow the line or move, even before the front rider, to prevent drivers overtaking?
Rather than following the line I always signal and move as early as possible so the driver knows what's happening immediately. The sooner the driver knows that we're turning right, the better, and the less likely they are to try and overtake

E. You are a confident fast rider. Are you best placed riding at the front or rear of the group?
**Depends on the rest of the group. Stronger riders on the front sometimes go too fast and make those behind them struggle / get dropped. **

...a fucking ship

Now that does sound interesting.

All true and would be good if all riders had some idea of what to do. Once we have brainstormed here I'll get a sticky thread up with some guidelines

You could also include riding generally as a group - e.g. commuters.
May help to ease the 'calling out bad cyclists/fucking nodders ' threads.

Beautifully scenic

I love this (entirely correct) description of East London :)

Ride East is an excellent ride. I'd reccomend it to any newcomer or seasoned forumonger.
Great idea Skydancer, my answers are already up there with pastry lover's and |3|MA3K.
I've never lead a forum ride, but I have lead a group of mates on rides to various places. It's easier in small groups I guess but communication is the key I find. Be that hand signals to alert hazards or manouevers, or shouting from the ride leader, back to designated riders who's job it is to let other riders know.
Individual responsibility comes in to it too. Each rider has a duty of care to themselves and therefore those around them. If they have strengths or weaknesses, these should be shared amount the group to encourage a smoother ride, and a better time out.

Answers based on experience of 100s of club rides.

Drunken fixed experience differ. It's all fast paced and chaotic, with lots of RLJ-ing and primary position idiocy, but people tend to look after each other.

Ride East is an excellent ride. I'd reccomend it to any newcomer or seasoned forumonger.

I hope so, my girlfriend is put off from any LFGSS ride apart from the ladies one.

One thing I always ask participants in rides is to look out for the rider behind, not the one in front, and take responsibility to close the gap behind, not the one in front.
It promotes rear observation, and makes it easy to keep a group together as the gaps close themselves. It can be a bit of a novelty at first, but when everyone gets the swing of it it can make rides really smooth.

B. You are at the back of the group riding along a single lane road. There is a driver behind. Is it better to yell 'Car Back' and move left to let the driver past, or to move right and prevent the driver passing with a wave and a smile?
Warn the group ve7rbally and move left. Moving right may annoy the driver, they sometimes get irate and start beeping and/or try to force their way past. Whereas if they see you've acknowledged their presence and made the effort to move left, they usually wait patiently.

I think it is only appropriate to move left when you are sure the driver can clear the whole group passing wide, which isn't often in urban environments. In most cases its better to move right and keep them back with a thumbs up. This is a major issue where its better to tolerate a beep and even annoy a driver for a short time than to let them pass where they may pass close to someone. In many cases its better to encourage people to ride 2 a breast.

That wouldn't go down well with the short-fused drivers around here. Like I said, my answers are based on my own experience of these situations, and I already acknowledged that others' experiences may be different...

Perhaps not shunned news member who wanted to join the ride as well?

Last coffee ride, my girlfriend and her two friends were shunned by a lots of you, and left behind at a red light unable to keep up without Riding.

Sorry to hear that - which coffee ride was that? I was really trying to keep people together on the first one (did a bit of a freestyle splitter ride for the 2nd).

the most recent one, it didn't help when the two other girls were wearing yellow cycling jacket and have road bike I guess.

Oh that's sad. It doesn't matter what people wear, no need to shun them. Tell your GF and her friends that they are very welcome on the Owl ride.

The Etikettenschwindel style of riding of 2010 and 2011 is sadly missed,