2012-06-30 Sat/Sun - Dunwich Dynamo DD20

There's a small chance I'll be in Athens (home) too during the summer..
let me know if you need tips on good places to ride/drink beer :)

I do!

Both!

Well, yet to decide whether I'm taking a bike. Tempted, but I'm staying near the Acropolis Museum and so I don't think I need one as should be able to walk everywhere.

Do need to know about places to eat, drink and chill though. Central-ish, but if I have a bike then happy to go further afield too.

1. YAL
   
2. Ramaye
   
3. shinkuu kiss
   
4. Rod Munch
   
5. vunugu
   
6. FixedCheese
   
7. Rowrowrowyourboat
   
8. Eamesy
   
9. apolloxl
   
10. almac68
    
    

i need to keep YAL on his toes...

Hi Iain,

You can't be looking at the same page as me - are you looking at the 2011 FAQ page, for Southwark Cyclists?

As it says here under** 'Where is the start?'** our feeder ride from Greenwich starts at 6pm on the Saturday for those who want some company getting up to Hackney.

Nothing is broken. You'll see when you read the 2012 FAQs that the button will be live VERY soon (paypal needs sorting) and I will let you know as soon as it does so you can book your coach place.

Great you're so enthusiastic :)

Why are the feeder rides in the morning?! If this is a 9 pm start, leaving at 10am seems terribly early.

Alex, I think there is a broken link on the Southwarkcycling site.

"How do I book a coach place?

Barry’s office Here and now via Paypal. You don’t need a Paypal account though. Most debit/credit cards will do nicely. You’ll get t..."

(the here links to Southwark Cycling but there isnt a link to Barry's office)

Bear in mind that I know the numbers behind those prices (at least, for when we did it) and you should be making a very healthy profit from it all with the rates that you have. Is it cheap? Well, it's competitive (given no other competition) for the early bird, and it's expensive for the closer to the date tickets.

For an insurance policy only where use is not actually anticipated or hoped for... then it's expensive when you don't have much money.
Hi David

Boy, you are cynical!

I don't really want to debate about our prices but just to respond to your post:

No, we don't anticipate making a 'very healthy profit'. We are a charity in any case. didn't lfgss make a loss last year? We cannot subsidise our operation. So comparing your prices with ours isn't really fair.

Also we have to book 4 huge lorries to drive the bikes back to London and 15 coaches with their own drivers. I think lfgss just used a coach?

Finally, as it says in the FAQs, if we didn't make the later fee(s) that much higher, no one would book early birds and therefore we would not have a clue how many coaches etc to book and the whole thing would end up costing more.

I think £30 is perfectly reasonable and a non-issue.

Man, can't make it anyway, got a wedding on the Saturday

I don't really want to debate about our prices

Fair enough, I'd moved on since I'm going to be in Athens... but as you'd replied refuting what I'd said I'd just clarify a few points.

On the Southwark Cyclists web site it does promise transparency: "We work the coaches/lorries on a cost-covering not-for-profit basis, transparent books".

No, we don't anticipate making a 'very healthy profit'. We are a charity in any case. didn't lfgss make a loss last year? We cannot subsidise our operation. So comparing your prices with ours isn't really fair.

Fair point. I never bothered doing the numbers since if it made a loss I didn't care. We lost a good chunk of money in 2010 but that's fine as I didn't care as the whole point was to provide a nice service for forumengers and to hell with the money. I don't know how much we lost as I don't have the old sales figures.

Looking back at 2011 though, because I do have numbers. We adjusted the price to ensure we didn't lose hand over fist, and sold the tickets at £15 each.

53 non-refundable tickets were sold which equals £795 income. Against £645.20 in costs (52 seat coach and a truck estimated to accommodate said many bikes) = profit.

It would appear that LFGSS actually made money, £149.80, or £2.83 per ticket sold (even though not all tickets were used). A slim margin, but just enough to have avoided loss.

So in 2011 LFGSS didn't in reality subsidise the coach, it paid it's way. Which is a nice thing to learn. I feel even better about dropping all that money on beer at the BFF 2011 now.

Next time I run a coach I'll be sure to change the language used. Actually, we could even pay people for their help in future.

I think lfgss just used a coach?

Nope, we had a small truck... just large enough for the bikes for the riders for a single coach.

We also (in 2010) used the large van (the vehicle in 2011 was a small truck rather than a large van) as a pit stop, allowing anyone in trouble to be rescued during the night. I think I recall one rider taking advantage of that due to some mechanical that would've left them stranded.

Finally, as it says in the FAQs, if we didn't make the later fee(s) that much higher, no one would book early birds and therefore we would not have a clue how many coaches etc to book and the whole thing would end up costing more.

That makes a lot of sense.

Did you want the details of the coach company we used? It might be that is where our costs were so much lower and why we could apparently profit on a £15 ticket. You can find them here: http://www.pjellis.co.uk/ .

We didn't really shop around for trucks, just chose whatever convenient van and truck hire there was, there's definitely room to beat our costs in that regard as we had no economy of scale in our favour.

tl;dr

We made money, we spent it on beer.

FFS....what difference does it make? And who's business is it anyway even if there were ANY profits made?
Like arranging transportation for nearly 8OO cyclists and their bikes isn't enough of a pain in the ass already?
Alex and Southwark are doing all the hard work here and saving people from the hassle of arranging their own transport or potentially sitting on Darsham station train platform all bloody day as they get refused entry on each train that arrives!
People should be grateful that there are others prepared to deal with such a logistical nightmare for them in the first place...and if they're not happy with the prices they need to get off their arses and sort out their own arrangements no?

Well done Alex and Southwark for even bothering!

And who's business is it anyway even if there were ANY profits made?

while i agree with you in principle, they made it people's business when they said "We work the coaches/lorries on a cost-covering not-for-profit basis, transparent books".

C'mon though...This should have been as simple as "We've arranged everything, here are the prices, here's how you get a ticket, if you want one buy one"

Alex shouldn't then have to defend or justify those prices. She's even done the work of finding out prices and times of trains.

Why not just buy one or don't buy one and be grateful that other people have done the work for you?

Anyway...well done them for organizing it and I hope to see you all on the road.
Apologies for getting involved...I don't wish to start any arguments.

Thanks guys.
Alex

Yeah, my fault, my autistic and OCD side comes through at times. After I hit reply I wondered whether that was one of those posts in which I would upset people. I don't always know. My apologies.

I do that myself sometimes. ;]

Gutted I can't make it this year (my own darn fault) but well done Alex for being a super organiser! I know exactly how it feels to be in your position.

Group hug?

hah.. where would we be without velocio and missmouse, though really

i'm sure i'm not the only one who appreciates everything they do, and without
any need for explanation, justification or apology..

love always
Almac x

I had to pass on last year's DD as I'd just had back surgery and have to say I really missed doing the ride. I've always been both astonished by and extremely grateful for the amazing job Southwark Cyclists do laying on the coaches (and the midway pit-stop).

I remember when in (I think) 2009 there was a mix up with there not being enough space in the trucks for all the bikes/it looking likely that some people were trying to ligg it, catching the coaches without having brought tickets, so massively throwing out the numbers and a group of irate riders looking like they were going to lynch Barry, despit the fact that he was clearly exhausted and doing everything humanly possible to sort it out.

Despite this grief and the fact that as the ride's grown it's become a truly gargantuan task, Southwark Cyclists volunteers still organise the coaches back (and midway pit-stop), something fow which I'm grateful.

It may or may not be possible to do this marginally more cheaply/efficiently than Southwark Cyclists do this, for me this isn't the point, from where I'm standing they organise the ride with the best of intentions and a lot of good will, with the sole intention of facilitating a fun ride for as many people as possible, trying to keep the price as low as possible while avoiding making a stonking loss.

Hat off to them :-)

Argument done.

Alex when's the Paypal link going up? Got money to put your way :-)

Monthly meeting tonight after which I plan to get it up and running.
Hugs all round and thanks for the kind words.
X

A reasonable back-up plan for the cash-strapped there-and-back folk is an £8 advance return from Ipswich, which is 20 miles of country lanes from Dunwich. Plenty of trains and less hectic on the platform than Darsham. At that price it's a fixed time for the train, so better to be a little on the later side, though if you're planning to ride back you're going to want to be getting to the beach by 7am or so.

That's my plan anyway. Now need to get some more miles in.

Building up a sturmey s2c rear wheel for this, exciting times.

Also planning a train back rather than a coach this time.

Why the train? If you don't mind me asking..

Cheaper and doesnt make me feel sick...