Current Projects chat and miscellany

I did warn you!

Balls.

(Also, thanks all for clarifying my stupidity!)

On dished rear wheels, yup, I know you're supposed to do it the other way. But I definitely got this from somewhere reputable, probably Jobst Brandt. I'll check the book.

Yeah it is dished, only one side is threaded, that makes me feel much better

Yeah it is dished, only one side is threaded, that makes me feel much better

Well, dished enough to allow multiple sprockets, the point being when the trailing spokes tension under pedalling force and the leading spokes relax, the crossing point is pulled inwards (away from the derailleur) rather than outwards. It's a very slight effect though. Your wheel is fine, don't worry.

Please explain, I'll change my habits if you have science. On rear wheels, it is traditional to have the pulling spokes inbound for crossed/interleaved builds (as pictured), because the increase in tension under power then tends to pull the interleaved crossing inboard, and away from the dérailleur. This is obviously irrelevant on track wheels.

On dished rear wheels, yup, I know you're supposed to do it the other way. But I definitely got this from somewhere reputable, probably Jobst Brandt. I'll check the book.

So, I went and had a look through the Brandt book, but it doesn't seem to back up what I thought. It does indeed recommend that you build rear wheels with the trailing spokes on the inside, irrespective of dish.

However, the Musson book is the other way round. His method ends up with the leading spokes on the inside. And then I remembered where I got the 'stronger' thing from - before I started building wheels, I had a set built by Arup and he specifically told me that he built them so that the hub logos were readable from behind when installed in the 'correct' - stronger - orientation, which was leading spokes inside.

So I've always built front wheels and track wheels that way round.

I wonder if it might have something to do with the Brandt diagrams showing the build process from the non-drive side, when one might assume they were from the drive side.

tl;dr

#csb

and I'm getting a clickety-clack when the pedals turny?

Maybe make sure your chain line and chain tension is okay to?

he specifically told me that he built them so that the hub logos were readable from behind when installed in the 'correct' - stronger - orientation, which was leading spokes inside.

The only hubs I've had which have a distinct 'right way round' are C-Record, which have counterbores for the spoke heads at alternate holes on the outside of the flange. That does force you to build a particular way round, and because the handedness of most rims opposes it you end up with either outbound pulling spokes or a trapped valve. Apart from the rear drive side argument enumerated above, and maybe the brake side of disc brake wheels for the same reason, there is no reason to favour one method over the other. Incidentally, dish has nothing to do with it, except that it's dish that puts the rear dérailleur cage so close to the drive side spokes in the first place.

On the wheels I've built for myself recently, I've put whichever spokes would get the greatest load on the inside of the flange, so my disc front wheel is laced the other way round to my v-brake front.

The only hubs I've had which have a distinct 'right way round' are C-Record, which have counterbores for the spoke heads at alternate holes on the outside of the flange. That does force you to build a particular way round, and because the handedness of most rims opposes it you end up with either outbound pulling spokes or a trapped valve. Apart from the rear drive side argument enumerated above, and maybe the brake side of disc brake wheels for the same reason, there is no reason to favour one method over the other. Incidentally, dish has nothing to do with it, except that it's dish that puts the rear dérailleur cage so close to the drive side spokes in the first place.

Indeed. Interesting that that misconception had perpetuated somehow though.

I thought it might have been the disc wheel forces that convinced Musson to build that way out of habit (as he seems mostly to build MTB wheels) but in his book he reckons when he was learning, he looked at the wheels being used in the TdF and most of them were built with the pulling spokes on the outside so that's what he did. Maybe they were mostly C-Record...

The only hubs I've had which have a distinct 'right way round' are C-Record, which have counterbores for the spoke heads at alternate holes on the outside of the flange. That does force you to build a particular way round, and because the handedness of most rims opposes it you end up with either outbound pulling spokes or a trapped valve. Apart from the rear drive side argument enumerated above, and maybe the brake side of disc brake wheels for the same reason, there is no reason to favour one method over the other. Incidentally, dish has nothing to do with it, except that it's dish that puts the rear dérailleur cage so close to the drive side spokes in the first place.

Aren't those counter bores to relieve stress on the bend of the spoke? -so the spoke head actually goes on the other side of the flange?
Sounds like the spoke holes on Mavic hubs
http://www.sterba-bike.cz/media/produkty/276/par-mtb-naboju-mavic-276-5.jpg

Few bits need adding (such as a new saddle). Fun bike and a really nice ride. This will eventually turn into my Time Trail bike for 2012.

Win.

Has the rear triangle been repaired?

Win.

Has the rear triangle been repaired?

Yeah the frame was built for a 650c rear and I toyed with selling it - but got it sorted at Mercian

Ah right so they moved the brake bridge up, thought the clearances looked toight!

So basically you got an even higher BB!

just wanted to say, thats one short and tall bike.
ed you have a pm too.

my dolan seta is still a current project, waiting for new parts to bring the weight under 6.6kg. i know it would be easy to go under 6, but there are parts which i won't change.

Like the saddle you mean?

Fair enough, very personal choice those are.

Aren't those counter bores to relieve stress on the bend of the spoke?

No, they are not bell-mouth holes as you would make them to support the spoke bend, they are actual counterbores sized and shaped to accommodate the spoke head. Some pictures on the internet seem to show the large flange C-Record road hubs with counterbores on all the holes, but mine are definitely on alternate holes which, given the 1/2 spoke offset from one side to another, makes them 'handed'

Made a few boring changes to my Gazelle, including the crank set, bottom bracket, saddle, bar tape, straps, saddle bag, mudguard and new kicks, which actually match loads of stuff, never meant them to.

I got a ride on Sunday and it might rain, so bodged on a mudguard and got a huge saddle bag with room for a thin jacket

Tyres look good. Michelin Dynamics? Shame you changed the original crank, why was that, for lower gearing? Other than the modern saddle and the extra's it's looking pretty good. Glad you changed the hoods and tape for black, looks much better than the white I had on it.

Haha are they Adidas Gazelles?

Changed saddle to Ti SLR and got some nice blue Fizik Microtex. That is all.

anyone use this front DR clamp?

£5.99 at evans, otherwise any suggestions for value for money alternatives?

That one is fine.
Shimano, SRAM and Campag all make their own if you want to match to groupset.

Tyres look good. Michelin Dynamics? Shame you changed the original crank, why was that, for lower gearing? Other than the modern saddle and the extra's it's looking pretty good. Glad you changed the hoods and tape for black, looks much better than the white I had on it.

It's in long distance/practical mode at the moment, well long distance for me anyway

Tyres are Panaracer pasela (awesome tyres), i did change the crankset so i could get a lower gearing, glad i did as well, still got the original ones in my shed, the Rolls saddle will be going back on tomorrow.

Haha are they Adidas Gazelles?

I wish, i really wanted some, but i ended up having to settle for ones called Elridge, similar to Samba's