A low-sweat bike?

Of course the bike can 'lead you on'! At least, it can if by 'lead you on' you mean that the kind of bike you're riding influences your riding style. Consider the following analogy, which I haven't thought out properly but which might work: the driver controls the speed of the car - an**d even slow cars can go really fast very easily - but I'm sure it wouldn't be controversial if somebody said that people drive faster in sports cars than in old bangers with small engines. **

Or an even more tenuous analogy: you are responsible for what you do and say and how you act, not your clothes. But you are probably more confident around members of the opposite sex (or same sex if that's your thing) when you are wearing clothes you think look good than when you're wearing ugly ones.

Rubbish analogy. My car can drive significantly above the speed limit, and can accelerate rather rapidly, yet becuase I'm the one in control I manage to drive at the speed limit and resisit the temptation to drop the hammer and fly off every set of traffic lights in a cloud of tyre smoke. Same applies to my bike riding, often head off for a long early morning group ride on my carbon road bike, then stop off home for a shower and change of clothes before riding the exact same bike into work at a greatly reduced rate to arrive at work relatively sweat free. If all you heavy bike thinkers lack the self control to avoid getting caught up in the E Grade commuter racing scene then I really hope you stick to riding bikes and never get behind the wheel of a car.

Velocio - I've nearly finished the internet powered face stabbing device you requested. Just the finishing touches to go, would you like it in baby blue or Pre War Baines finish? Please feel free to use it with what used to be termed 'gay abandon' as me and my homies Newton and Einstein are losing the will to live.

Toodle pip.

The rider is the one in control of the effort they put in, not the bike. Are some of you seriously saying the bike leads you on somehow?

My bike is an unfathomable tease.

#thatsthewayahahilikeit

Rubbish analogy. My car can drive significantly above the speed limit, and can accelerate rather rapidly, yet becuase I'm the one in control I manage to drive at the speed limit and resisit the temptation to drop the hammer and fly off every set of traffic lights in a cloud of tyre smoke. Same applies to my bike riding, often head off for a long early morning group ride on my carbon road bike, then stop off home for a shower and change of clothes before riding the exact same bike into work at a greatly reduced rate to arrive at work relatively sweat free. If all you heavy bike thinkers lack the self control to avoid getting caught up in the E Grade commuter racing scene then I really hope you stick to riding bikes and never get behind the wheel of a car.

I'm not saying it's impossible to go slow on a fast bike, or a fast car for that matter, just that it might influence you...

I don't really see why this is such a controversial suggestion.

And I stick by my observation that when I ride a cycle hire bike, the damn thing is so undergeared, upright and heavy that I can't be bothered try to go faster than granny pace, and so I never break into a sweat... so if I was concerned about not sweating on a bike, one possible way to reduce this would be to use a similar bike.

In any event, I think it's madness to try to prevent sweating when riding a bike. Sweating makes you look badass and sexy. This is the look I aim for, somewhere between glistening and dripping:

Velocio - I've nearly finished the internet powered face stabbing device you requested. Just the finishing touches to go, would you like it in baby blue or Pre War Baines finish? Please feel free to use it with what used to be termed 'gay abandon' as me and my homies Newton and Einstein are losing the will to live.

Toodle pip.

Why the fucking argument about weight anyway? Weight accounts for a tiny proportion of the energy required to power a bike on a reasonably level surface. If you want to make an argument against dutch bikes aerodynamics is considerably more important.

Physics tells me that a lightweight crouched over road bike will get you where you want to be using the least energy.
Reality/experience tells me that upright bike will get you there producing the least sweat.

This is the look I aim for, somewhere between glistening and dripping:

You do look sexy, particularly with the moustache.

Physics tells me that a lightweight crouched over road bike will get you where you want to be using the least energy in the quickest possible time.
Reality/experience tells me that upright bike will get you there producing the least sweat while taking longer

fixed.

(in my experience, the difference between a road bike and a dutch bike is between 7-15 minutes in the same journey of 10 miles).

Did that with the Globe Haul before it got stolen despite being a fucking ghastly ugly bicycle.

Fixed this for you.

I'm sure you burn more calories on the fast bike though.

It depends how fast you'd pedal and for how long.

As the creator of this thread, I will now repeat myself in the humble hope that someone proves me wrong:

"There are no framesets below 3kg available on the market which have a genuine dutch-style upright geometry."

Soma Buena Vista - 2.27kg

Im not sure about "genuine dutch-style upright geometry", but its got all those bendy bars, fenders, and big stems and white-wall tyres and stuff.

dutch as fuck

Fixed this for you.

Thanks for saying it so I don't have to be nasty to Ed. :)

Of course the bike can 'lead you on'! At least, it can if by 'lead you on' you mean that the kind of bike you're riding influences your riding style.

Okay, so sounds like those who are not in control of what they are doing will not be able to stop themselves putting more effort into riding a race bike than a dutch bike. Remember the same effort will have you going faster on the race bike so it is down to effort not resultant speed. The race bike will get you there faster with same effort. Same effort as faster speed means less sweat as more wind to help with wicking (probably)

As for me, I would just ride the lightest and most efficient bike at 12mph and only have to pedal every now and again, while you would be mashing away on the dutch bike in a ball of sweat keeping up with me...

I bet your landlord loves you. Look at the state of the floor, you dirty puppy!

Soma Buena Vista - 2.27kg

2.27? probably frame only, not frameset. but even then, 2.27 is not bad for a mixte frame.

nonetheless it's terribly ugly and I wonder why there's no nice and light standard-diamond-geometry frame with dutch angles.

Here is a (bad) mosaic of a facepalm made up of many facepalms to express just how fuken dumb the vast majority of posts in this thread are:

http://i.cr3ation.co.uk/dl/s1/jpg/facepalm.jpg

yo dawg etc.

I read a piece in bike biz a few years ago basically saying how its all in the tyres... specifically contact patch and pressure
just had a look but cant find it
ehat about me obree anyway?

Here is a (bad) mosaic of a facepalm made up of many facepalms to express just how fuken dumb the vast majority of posts in this thread are:

http://i.cr3ation.co.uk/dl/s1/jpg/facepalm.jpg

yo dawg etc.

That would be all the posts from people who know everything about the difference between riding a light road bike and a heavy dutch/roadster bike even though they've never tried it, right?

Funny how the people who have tried both say one thing and the people who haven't are telling them they are wrong.

I don't see why it's so hard to fathom. Lightweight sporty bikes reward fast riding, which is this guy's problem, and comfortable relaxed bikes encourage you to take it easy and ride smoothly, which may be just the solution he needs.
Perhaps those dismissing the virtues of the traditional roadster have just never owned one.
Of course, Velocio, if you tried going at the same speed as a road bike you'd expend more effort. You'd have to be a fucking idiot to think otherwise. Whereas you'd only have to be spectacularly unobservant and miss the point completely to believe anyone actually suggested that in the first place. bloody straw man argument.

Here are some ways a roadster encourages you to ride slowly and gently:

1. The brakes are utterly crap. You have to plan miles ahead. You can get the old bus up to quite fast speeds if you want to but you never forget that you have no way of stopping from those speeds, so you tend not to.

2. The weight means fast acceleration is out of the question. So you tend to take starting off smoothly and slowly. Once you start off in this mode you continue taking it smooth and slowly.

3. It's weight means it carries a lot of momentum. You can get it up to moving and really take it easy, just putting in the effort to keep it ticking over, and it keeps on rolling. This is really nice. You get to like it and ride accordingly.

Funny how the people who have tried both say one thing and the people who haven't are telling them they are wrong.

I've tried both. I still try to race on my mum's Gazelle, but take it easy on a Scissor, because I enjoy skidding with a low gear all over the place more than sweating.

I have tried both. I used a 1950's Raleigh as my commuter and it was hard work (especially in the summer) as there were a few hills on the way. Going slow/relaxed didn't make much difference, it was still harder work than my road bike so therefore a more sweat inducing experience.
The only reason I used it was because it had full guards (including chain case) so was good for riding with work suit and shoes on.

The thing here is that some have more will power/control than others I guess. A bike will never encourage me to ride faster than I want to. Difficult for people in one position to appreciate those in the other...

I used a 1950's Raleigh as my commuter and it was hard work (especially in the summer) as there were a few hills on the way. Going slow/relaxed didn't make much difference, it was still harder work than my road bike so therefore a more sweat inducing experience.
The only reason I used it was because it had full guards (including chain case) so was good for riding with work suit and shoes on..

Did you try the road bike in your work suit as well?

The thing here is that some have more will power/control than others I guess. A bike will never encourage me to ride faster than I want to. Difficult for people in one position to appreciate those in the other...

It's more subtle than that. A bike (/car/skis/shoes/whatever) can't make you ride faster than you want to but it can make you want to ride faster.

Let's say the lights go green when you are about 200 yards away. If you carry on at the speed you're going you'll get there just as they change again and have to wait out the cycle. If you're taking it slow on a nippy bike you know you can accelerate just a teeny bit and you'll catch the lights and be happily on your way. On a roadster you know you might be able to make it, but it'll be a lot of effort and there's a good chance you'll have to stop anyway so chances are you'll not bother. In fact you'll see that light change and start slowing. Over a trip, those little bursts of acceleration add up to working that little bit harder to go that little bit faster on the road bike.

Of course, the more convinced someone is that they aren't susceptible to outside influences, the less likely they are to recognise them.

don't forget they're heavy

Did you try the road bike in your work suit as well?

Of course, the more convinced someone is that they aren't susceptible to outside influences, the less likely they are to recognise them.

Yes I did, but had to change shoes and it looks very strange to be wearing a suit on a road bike! And yes, it was far easier and I didn't get as hot. It was more a case that the Raleigh was more suitable for riding whilst wearing a suits and work shoes.

As for the outside influences, you are just making that bit up as you cannot know a person susceptibility to outside influences without knowing a bot more info.
As another example I have just the same situation when I walk to work. It is just under 3 miles and I like to walk very fast so easy to build up a sweat towards the end. This is fine in winter but in the summer I just have to walk a bit more slowly to avoid getting hot and sweating. And yes that is when wearing shoes that are just begging for it!

It is called control, will power whatever you want to call it. Some people find things easy when they put their mind to it and overcome influences. Some can give up smoking easily while others struggle, some people can limit food/diet easily while others struggle.