The Times Cycling Campaign

I'd really like to read that article. Pia's sound as a pound.

@theory
Im sure yep.its just the way some journos make it cringeworthy. Helen Pidd however dont give a monkeys-she knows the score and dosent need to deal out the bullshit

Really Skully? Because it looks to me like they care a lot.

You miss my point - they don't care enough to actually engage with the issues: segregation & registration are both stupid knee-jerks.

I don't believe that this call for safe car free routes for cycling is that helpful in the round. The more we get London roads even fuller of cyclists the better and safer for everyone. Both doesn't work. You build these car free routes ( where in london I've no idea ) then drivers will be less tolerant of riders on the roads. And the roads as they are get us from a to b quickly and efficiently.
To be honest, I have felt quite torn over this issue. I represent a group of 800+ individuals many of whom have strong, equally informed but often differing opinions and who have been lobbying for decades to make the roads safer, using all manner of approaches and arguments.

However, we all share the same end goals including safer cycling conditions and fewer casualties.

Of course "the more we get London roads even fuller of cyclists the better and safer for everyone" but perhaps the best way to get these potential cyclists to cycle is to improve infrastructure.

No, it says a lot about what a small quasi-representative group of London's cyclists want on the roads.

It does not speak to the practicality or the efficacy of segregation. Or the externalities of allocating limited budget to it.

LCC is the biggest cycling campaign group in London.

Of course "the more we get London roads even fuller of cyclists the better and safer for everyone" but perhaps the best way to get these potential cyclists to cycle is to improve infrastructure.

Perhaps?

Certainty would be nicer.

Build and they will come miss mouse?
That is not proven at all. What did get masses of londoners on bike recently?
Tfl has been marketing cycling, adverts and free training for years, cycling has begun to look cool, people encourage their work mates and friends, drivers are making it easier by giving less hassle, c charge and other financial incentives like the tax break, slower speeds and road calming, bus lanes and bus driver training... Most of these getting people to use the current infrastructure. More stuff liken this rather than scaremongering and calling for impossible things like segregation on all major a roads

You miss my point - they don't care enough to actually engage with the issues: segregation & registration are both stupid knee-jerks.

Others disagree. They've engaged with the issues. This is what they've come up with. You just don't like it.

No you're right, I think they're bollocks ideas. I can't help judging things according to my opinions.

^^ looks like what is being published is the sensationalist, headline grabbing, interpretation of what was discussed with those organisations.

I think the org's "backing it" will be glad of the campaign and exposure, but not of the quality of the messages that have gone to press.

Just read their own +ve messages about cycling on their own sites, they'd never issue press copy full of such doom and gloom themselves.

By allowing The Times to take the lead, messages appear to me to have become twisted & confused.

(My own opinion, not that of my employer etc etc)

Skully, I'm not saying you're wrong to have opinions. I'm just saying that this campaign isn't worthless because it doesn't tally with them. I've met you: you were smart and reasonable - I don't doubt that you've thought through what you'd like to see the roads to be. But others have done the same and come to other conclusions.

RHB: the organisations have lent their backing to this campaign, but you still think that they wouldn't be happy with it?

Yeah, I take your point. I am getting a feeling that the Times is doing something, just I'm wary of their ability to get the right tone, as better expressed by Skydancer, tiswas, adroit and others. I really feel the focus needs to be directed at motorists! Effective speed limits enforcement, for instance (why on EARTH did they paint the gatsos yellow reflective, for instance? Totally counter productive).

In The Guardian exactly 7 years ago....
“There is something about the miscreant cyclist that seems to get people more exercised than they are about the misbehaving motorist…When people get into cars, their metal encasement turns them into robots in our minds, and we’re grateful to them for any act of courtesy. We’re grateful that they don’t deliberately kill children, then laugh a rasping, metallic laugh…[Cyclists] are more civic-minded than anyone else travelling in any other manner, bar by foot. If they do run into someone, they at least (like the bee) do their victim the favour of hurting themselves in the process, which is why, if you had any sense, you’d save your hatred for the motorist, who (like the wasp) injures without care.”
Zoe Williams, The Guardian, 4th February 2006

Not sure abot this. I've seen some shocking examples of over reactions from cyclists when blatantly in the wrong e.g. undertaking gone wrong. I constantly see folk flicking the finger, effing and blinding when fairly challenged on poor cycling. I've seen folk try to teach in-attentive peds a lesson and worst of all hitting vehicles by mistake and NOT stopping or looking back to acknowledge what's happened. Zoe's memory of 2006 sounds more like 1906. There are bells that use both form of transport end of. This kind of polarizing view point just plays into the sympathisers of:
"Cyclists are pompous enough as it is - a cycling Covenant would make them unbearble"

RHB: the organisations have lent their backing to this campaign, but you still think that they wouldn't be happy with it?

Can't comment on happiness, only repeat...

"I think the org's "backing it" will be glad of the
campaign and exposure, but not of the quality
of the messages that have gone to press.

Just read their own +ve messages about cycling
on their own sites, they' d never issue press
copy full of such doom and gloom themselves."

justine on a bike -pics

Build and they will come miss mouse?
That is not proven at all. What did get masses of londoners on bike recently?
Tfl has been marketing cycling, adverts and free training for years, cycling has begun to look cool, people encourage their work mates and friends, drivers are making it easier by giving less hassle, c charge and other financial incentives like the tax break, slower speeds and road calming, bus lanes and bus driver training... Most of these getting people to use the current infrastructure. More stuff liken this rather than scaremongering and calling for impossible things like segregation on all major a roads

And not dressing like a total melt on commutes.

And not dressing like a total melt on commutes.

Been saying this for years.

Fluoronodders look like outcasts and are easy to identify as such.

I hear this, I agree with so much of what you say, I don't like scaremongering either (take one recent campaign group lamenting the 'murder of cyclists' etc) I am simply giving another view. These debates will run and run. Perhaps this doesn't matter - the great thing is that cycling HAS become political, it will matter in the Mayoral campaign this year and it's making news.

Been saying this for years.

Fluoronodders look like outcasts and are easy to identify as such.

Yup. I wear a flowery dress for cycling; it does far more for my safety than a helmet.

This may not work as well for men.

And not dressing like a total melt on commutes.
what is a melt? who is this comment aimed at? what has attire got to do with this thread?

Yup. I wear a flowery dress for cycling; it does far more for my safety than a helmet.

This may not work as well for men.

If I had to wear a flowery dress, I probably wouldn't cycle. Which allegedly will me make safer.

#takesupalligatorwrestling

LCC is the biggest cycling campaign group in London.

Not in my name!

LCC is the biggest group of people actively campaigning against my beliefs.

I think the org's "backing it" will be glad of the campaign and exposure, but not of the quality of the messages that have gone to press.

Conjecture, though at least you acknowledge that in your own post.

Not sure abot this. I've seen some shocking examples of over reactions from cyclists when blatantly in the wrong e.g. undertaking gone wrong. I constantly see folk flicking the finger, effing and blinding when fairly challenged on poor cycling. I've seen folk try to teach in-attentive peds a lesson and worst of all hitting vehicles by mistake and NOT stopping or looking back to acknowledge what's happened. Zoe's memory of 2006 sounds more like 1906. There are bells that use both form of transport end of. This kind of polarizing view point just plays into the sympathisers of:
"Cyclists are pompous enough as it is - a cycling Covenant would make them unbearble"

I agree with this. People are at fault for being selfish, their mode of transport has no bearing on this.

I hear this, I agree with so much of what you say, I don't like scaremongering either (take one recent campaign group lamenting the 'murder of cyclists' etc) I am simply giving another view. These debates will run and run. Perhaps this doesn't matter - the great thing is that cycling HAS become political, it will matter in the Mayoral campaign this year and it's making news.

are you sure Alex? riding bikes is better when its just pure fun imo.