-
Thanks James...keep me posted ! I will try and post some closups of the lugs and serial number tonight...
-
I don't think it's a Gazelle.. Framenumber thing doesn't add up.. It should've been stamped with Gazelle to be a Gazelle.. Also, although fork crowns look/are identical, clearance is not.. Put a wheel in it, you'll see.. I believe in th OG FS thread there was a picture with wheels.. That was one of the things that put me off from buying it when it came for sale again, besides having already bought another frame.. ;)
Also, wrapover stays should wrapover totally for a Gazelle, like in touching each other in the middle.. Also, Gazelle lugs are cutout, from pic 1, that's not the case..I believe someone mentioned what the forks were in the FS thread.. Too lazy to look it up.. Maybe that's a connection to look further..? I'm convinced it's not a Gazelle.. (I own 2 from that era, no track though..)
My 2p. keep as is, slap on nice components (with restecp to frame.. fluted cranks, box rims, etc), have a-awesome rat!
-
Cheers for your input Rodolfo - very helpful
I purchased the frame with a view to building a super-rat - I wasn't even planning on being particularly respectful to its heritage! Here it is with 28mm tyres (I won't be using aero rims or 28s on the final build, but Primato L/F on MA2s - I'm not a monster!)
I then got a bit carried away with things when you compare bikes like this from route canale and add in the existing Gazelle stickers - so I just want to get to the bottom of it! meanwhile, I'll run it over the winter as is and see what I can find out about it
The clearances in this pic look fairly tight but on Josh's original listing he had smaller tyres and it did look quite generous - which pretty much rules out the Gazelle theory...re: Forks
I whipped off the forks this evening to check the serial no. and it is indeed different to that on the BB 4854 on the forks vs. 4339 on the BB - which suggests that the frame and forks may well be from the same builder, just 515 frames apart!!
On the original listing, chrisbmx116 said he thought they were from a 60's Carlton - this sort of thing...
VQ~~48_12.JPG)
I don't think the frame's a Carlton, partly because there are no letters in the frame number, and also because the lugs are far too subtle for Carltons - even the few frames they made with campag track ends like this - Also that style of track fork crown was pretty ubiquitous during the 60's and certainly not exclusive to Carlton - spotted this one on bike radar though which looks pretty similar - http://www.bikeradar.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=15879995re: Wrapover seatstays - good point well made - I've seen some very small gaps on gazelles, but none are anywhere near as big as the ones on my frame..
-
Just going back to the original listing Josh said he thought it was a Claud Butler - thought I'd follow it up an- contrary to my expectation, they made campag-ended prugnat lugged track frames in the late 60's / early 70's - but we're back to the serial number again - I thought Claud's had longer numbers with dates etc in them....
-
Excuse rubbish/dark pictures.. my camera's macro settings are screwed up...
BCM stamp on front of top and bottom heat tube lugs
72 stamp on front of seat cluster lug
4103 stamp (not 4330!)
What I find interesting is that the number is stamped in the same place.. they must be from the same manufacturer ! ! ! -
seems we have the same lugs too i.e. professional
the sample stamp you posted in post #1868 is the plain set -
I picked up this from a guy who came into the shop the other day, he has basically totally ruined it(whatever it was) for some reason he has tried to cut out the bb, rattle can the thing white(terrible job) and the seatpost is stuck, the seat stays say "Columbia" on them and it has "young" stamped into the bb,the dropouts are campy, i spent a while on google and came up with nothing, if anyone has any idea it would be pretty cool to find out what it is/where it came from.oh and it has has canti mounts.
Columbia frames came from Worksop, England. As you can see from the pictures, I have a Lo Pro built from Reynolds 531 with a curved seat and top tube. The font used for the branding is a script type font which looks similar to the lettering used on the seat stays on your frame. Having looked closely at the pictures(the bike is at the back of the shed at the moment) it has fast back seat stays, so does not have the 'Columbia' detailing to the top of the seat stays. I can not recall a frame number at the moment or any detailing on the bottom bracket but it looks to me that it is the same frame builder. I do not have any information on the age of the frame as the previous owner bought it second hand.
I particularly like the blue/white fade colour scheme and the gold script branding and do not intend to repaint, but to retain the pattina and considering building up with Mavic groupset and a PMP chainset with the 'L' shaped cranks.
I have also googled it and have only found one other Columbia which was a road bike.
Hope this helps.
2 Attachments
-
-
I ran into this frame on polish auction service
http://img15.allegroimg.pl/photos/oryginal/19/83/84/98/1983849848_2
what lugs are these? I swear I saw them somewhere else (these characteristic cutouts).
frame is 'milanetti' branded -
apolloxl - I'm pretty sure we do have frames from the same source.
I'm also near certain that they're not Gazelles.
The wrapover stays, campag. ends, pointy lugs and plate crown look to be pretty commonplace on high end italianate track bikes of the late 60's early 70's. The fact that it's just a 4-digit code rather than an alphanumeric 6-7-digits means we can rule out claud butler, holdsworth, raleigh, carlton et al and focus more on the lower volume manufacturers i.e. UK frame builders building trendy european style frames during that period. An intial thought I had was Bob Jackson.
On bikeforums there's an archive of Bob Jackson frame numbers, most of which are 5-digits, but there's a 1973 frame numbered 9359, so that's certainly not ruled out.
I then found this frame on the timetrialling forum, which looks to be bang-on except for the ground-off track ends!!! the wrapover stays are just right too, as are the forks...
If anyones got a similar era of Bob Jackson, any chance we could compare the serial number stamp????
Cheers -
it is worth saying that my dropouts have been welded on recently.. so I cant rule out the frame having track fork ends prior to that
-
Case Solved!!! - Decent outcome too - I've always admired Bob Jackson's work!!!
[B]From:[/B]Bob Jackson Cycles [mailto:Factory@bobjacksoncycles.demon.co.uk]
[B]Sent:[/B] 08 December 2011 14:19
[B]To:[/B] James Lee
[B]Subject:[/B] Re:Hi James, Well yes that looks like one of ours and the number is right with the period. On our Master sheet 4854 was built in 1964
Donald
-
Hi, I have an old Cyclocross bike. I am trying to identify the frame manufacturer. I know this a a fixed gear site but I'm at a dead end! I have been told it is a 60-70s frame. Shimano Exage brakes, Mavic MA2 wheels, Shimano Altus-LT 14 speed gears & Sakae custom (England) handlebars. I have been told it is a hand built british or dutch frame. Any help would be greatly appreciated as to possible manufacturers of cyclocross frames of this era.
Cheers,
Danny
-
I have attached some pics of the bike.
Cheers,
Danny
4 Attachments
-
-
thanks James, I will email him too ! ! !
-
Hi, I have an old Cyclocross bike. I am trying to identify the frame manufacturer. I know this a a fixed gear site but I'm at a dead end! I have been told it is a 60-70s frame. Shimano Exage brakes, Mavic MA2 wheels, Shimano Altus-LT 14 speed gears & Sakae custom (England) handlebars. I have been told it is a hand built british or dutch frame. Any help would be greatly appreciated as to possible manufacturers of cyclocross frames of this era.
Cheers,
Danny
Hi Danny
This is unlikely to be 60's/70's unless they're not the original forks (Unicrown forks have only been around since the 80's).
They might not be original since the frame is lugged - not many manufacturers fitted unicrown forks to lugged bikes.
The Dutch angle is worth investigating - If you google lugged bike unicrown, you'll pick up this rant http://lovelybike.blogspot.com/2011/04/unicrown-fork.html which says that Batavus tend to combine lugs and unicrowns - so that may be worth following up.... I know they make CX bikes - though I'm not 100% certain that your frame began life with drop handlebars, looks more like hybrid geometry at first glance.
Hope that's some help
James -
Haha, incredible, you got a 60s Bob Jackson track frame for less than £100 if I remember the sale thread rightly!!
great investigative work
Case Solved!!! - Decent outcome too - I've always admired Bob Jackson's work!!!
[B]From:[/B]Bob Jackson Cycles [mailto:Factory@bobjacksoncycles.demon.co.uk]
[B]Sent:[/B] 08 December 2011 14:19
[B]To:[/B] James Lee
[B]Subject:[/B] Re:Hi James, Well yes that looks like one of ours and the number is right with the period. On our Master sheet 4854 was built in 1964
Donald
-
Haha, incredible, you got a 60s Bob Jackson track frame for less than £100 if I remember the sale thread rightly!!
great investigative work
mine cost £40
-
Yep - delighted - the frame was £92 incl. delivery - and as soon as I pulled it out of the box I could see it was a bit of a bargain!! (superlight, double butted, very thin delicate lugs and campag ends), so I was keen to get to the bottom of it and find out where it came from....
Apologies for the prolific posting - The scientist in me wanting to show the working & thought process!!
apolloxl - did you get a confirmation from Bob Jackson? judging by the top tube cable routing and rear brake bridge I'd assume yours was built as a road frame. If you're interested in period decals, H.Lloyd do the block lettering downtube stickers for £3.50
Cheers rodolfo - the clearance and seatstay tips were responsible for letting go of the Gazelle theory and going back to square one - major red herring that gazelle decal, and no idea why it was put there!! -
I will definitely grab some stickers from H Lloyd... have dealt with them before too..
Still waiting for confirm email though ! Can't wait !
-
I picked up this from a guy who came into the shop the other day, he has basically totally ruined it(whatever it was) for some reason he has tried to cut out the bb, rattle can the thing white(terrible job) and the seatpost is stuck, the seat stays say "Columbia" on them and it has "young" stamped into the bb,the dropouts are campy, i spent a while on google and came up with nothing, if anyone has any idea it would be pretty cool to find out what it is/where it came from.oh and it has has canti mounts.
I have googled 'columbia worksop' and it comes up with one relevant listing that I can find, and that is the CTC forum.This is the link http://forum.ctc.org.uk/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=47577. Searching for 'columbia bikes', 'columbia cycle' just gives loads of American sites as it was also an American make.
-
Another bar question... Love this photo.
Can anyone identify what bars Anquetil is using in this shot? They seem comfortably shallow and also look like they've got the slightest flare to them. But nothing like a randonneur bar and no rise across the tops.
Some kind of Maes pattern?
-
Daccordi Profidea tubeset?
If it's anyone familiar with the exact model of Daccordi or its'
tubeset, it will be very helpful.
http://velospace.org/node/40244Seems that it was made from a lot of tubesets depending the year of production,
dedacciai, columbus foco and ultra foco..thanks!
-
These cranks. Think they are Chorus but not 100% sure:
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee427/samueldavidkeyes/Photo0007.jpg
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee427/samueldavidkeyes/Photo0006.jpg
ObiWomKenobi
Rodolfo
Rik_Van_Looy
retro_vélo
beret
boardaholic
fredtc
eamonnog
doctor_john
samueldavidkeyes-
Post a reply
About
Can you help to identify these frames, bikes or parts?
Posted by
@fc9k
Nice bike appoloxl and great colour choice!
Couldn't find any Bocama stamps on the lugs, so I'm back to the assumption that they're prugnat!
Both our bikes have very similar seatstay lugs and close serial numbers - it's a good chance they're from the same (unknown) source!!!
Still can't rule out Gazelle as they made very similar looking road & track frames with both Bocama & Prugnat lugs! I think I'll take some decent photos and fire them over to fivenineclimber - I've also recently spotted this one which bears a striking resemblance - http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4019/4280508047_88d46d2f4e.jpg
re: 100archangels comment - I checked the BB lug/chainstay joint in daylight this morning - everything looks to be straight - I suspect it's a close-up distortion from the ancient nokia camera!