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• #52327
change the cabling and pedals though
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• #52328
^ cabling is the best bit!
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• #52329
i bet it's nippy in town.
where am I supposed to hang my shopping?
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• #52330
and costs twice as the canyon
How much is the Canyon? P2Cs are under £1500 if you shop around
and mdcc has one on order ?!
No, I have a T3 on order
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• #52331
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• #52332
How much is the Canyon? P2Cs are under £1500 if you shop around
In 2010 mine was in the region of US$1,750 for P2C complete bike (ultegra, 2009 paintjob) - oh and I got a bike fit and a giro advantage-2 for free. I added the wheels for £600 (disc) and £400 for the planet-x 50mm wheelset (so I have options for the road bike or windy/hilly conditions). Not so bad considering that just the frameset of the previous iteration of the Canyon Speedmax (not the concept model posted above) is quoted at €1,899.
P.s. Serious question, in the absence of wind tunnel data what is it about the two frames (Canyon speedmax-concept and Cervelo P2C) that makes you think the P2 would be faster? To my eyes the Canyon looks to be doing most things right whereas I would have said that (as much as I love it) the P2 is starting to look a bit out dated in the absence of nifty cable and brake integration?
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• #52333
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• #52334
lovely except the crank, what is that?
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• #52335
lovely except the crank, what is that?
Dura Ace...?
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• #52336
think you're right
but they still are horrible looking
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• #52337
i'm in love...
very good photo stream and history by Norris Lockley
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• #52338
Those Campag delta brakes always give me the mild horn. Growing up around decent cyclists in the eighties made them the one item we all wanted.
oh, and hello, this is my first post.
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• #52339
hello andy and welcome
:)
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• #52340
Loving the blue/fluoro on that Merckx and the *turned/faced? discs on that Geliano.
*Must have been a hooge lathe? (Stickers not so much)
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• #52341
Hiya Tilover.
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• #52343
..
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• #52344
The interesting bit for me in that is the frustration he voices about the UCI and their apparent fear of innovation.
His old bike also makes me wonder how the top riders today would stand up against the legends of the past using each others hardware. Boardman pointed out when he launched his range that the mid range bike he puts his name to is probably a better performing machine than the one he used to compete on, go further back and the differences must be monumental.
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• #52345
The interesting bit for me in that is the frustration he voices about the UCI and their apparent fear of innovation.
His old bike also makes me wonder how the top riders today would stand up against the legends of the past using each others hardware. Boardman pointed out when he launched his range that the mid range bike he puts his name to is probably a better performing machine than the one he used to compete on, go further back and the differences must be monumental.
He should have pointed out that the first load of road frames bearing his name to show up in Hellfrauds stores had horribly misaligned frames and piss poor finish and were worse performing that a chocolate fireguard.
Oh and those recent ones with the cables going through the headtube, what the fucking fuck?
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• #52346
I take your point re quality control on much of his range, but I think his comment also stands. If we remove Boardman and just look at it from the standpoint that what many people can afford as a mid range bike is likely to be higher performance than the pro bikes 10 or 15 years prior.
Yes, there are some truly fantastic bikes that stand the test of time but as a general comment I don't think he was that far off.
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• #52347
P.s. Serious question, in the absence of wind tunnel data what is it about the two frames (Canyon speedmax-concept and Cervelo P2C) that makes you think the P2 would be faster? To my eyes the Canyon looks to be doing most things right whereas I would have said that (as much as I love it) the P2 is starting to look a bit out dated in the absence of nifty cable and brake integration?
We're both guessing until they are tested together in the wind tunnel and on the road, but brake integration looks like a marketing gimmick rather than a real advance in aerodynamics. A fairly ordinary road brake does so little to increase the CdA over no brake that any compromises to the fork crown and it's flow into the down tube is quite likely to wipe out any advantage of not having a brake caliper in front of the fork crown.
On the Canyon specifically, I'm very bothered by the mid-chord edge features on the down tube, seat tube, seat post and seat stays. It seems unlikely that airflow will remain attached downstream of that sharp transition. It looks as though the seat tube below the seat stay junction is quite narrow, leaving the junction itself out in the breeze, and failing to get the airflow in line all the way along the cut-out tends to make frames sensitive to wheel choice.
All that is, as I say, just from looking at it in comparison with things which are known to work. Aerodynamics is not a science which lends itself to just looking, as anybody who has tried to work out what''s going on with all the air deflectors, spoilers, fins and flaps on a F1 car will know. Canyon might have tested it in the wind tunnel against examples of the competition and found radical new solutions which further raise the bar, but if it was my money, I'd need to see a lot of independent confirmation before deciding that Canyon had even exceeded the 2-generation old P2C, much less the P3, P4 and putative 2012 P5.
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• #52348
not really a fan of the stem tho.
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• #52349
Stem, bars, saddle
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• #52350
Not really a fan of bullhorns with road geometry, they give one weird position where drops with two brake levers would give 3 nice positions.
Wow, Concorde's don't usually make me look once, but that is lovely