Wheel truing - Help removing wobble, flat spots, etc

bump.

Mavic* say between 70 and 90 kg with a 3x pattern.

Anyone got any thoughts on this? It sounds quite low to me.

• gbcustomer.services@mavic.com - if anyone is curious.
  

Yup that's far too low, a pair of fixie wheels (non dished) might survive a while at 70kgF, but a dished wheel will fall apart really quickly with the cassette side at 70, the non-cassette side would be at 45-ish even if you glued the nips in place the spokes would fatigue really fast.

For clarity, this is exactly what they said:

We recommend spoke tensions between 70 and 90 kg (for a front or rear wheel on the free wheel side with a 3 crossed pattern).

So can anybody suggest what tension I should be going for?

It has a 30mm rim depth. Which is the same as a deep V - internetz guesses are around the 100-120kgF mark.

Anyone got any ideas? How do 'proper builders' do this? Do they have a formular base on rider style and weight? (I'm around 12st fwiw).

Well I have been working hard on my first build and I thought I was pretty much finished and showed a friend my bike... Who said my wheels are laced up wrong!! I
Thought he was having a laugh but I have looked into it and it seems he is right! The spokes don't cross each other!!!

So now I need to relace my wheels and I have very little money to spend and am eager to go for a cycle on my new bike.

I have bought a spoke key and am considering relacing the wheels myself and then taking them to get them trued. Assuming this would make it cheaper as I am doing most of the laborious work!? But I am a little nervous as I don't really know what I am doing. I took the wheel to my local bike shop who quoted me £30 a wheel so I walked straight out again!

Was wondering if any one on here could/ would want to do it and how much it would cost.

Thanks

Martin

They are record hubs laced to MA40 rims

Pics?

Follow Sheldon Browns guide.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html
or this instructable.
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-lace-a-bicycle-wheel/

If you bring your wheels to one of the drinks gatherings, someone may give them a final truing/check for a couple pints if you're lucky.

£30 per wheel or £50 a pair is the going rate for a build.

If your wheels are laced so incorrectly that they're not crossed when they should be, then the spokes are also the wrong length. Are you sure they're not supposed to be like that? Radial (not crossing) on the front wheel is not uncommon, although the rear should be crossed. Got a picture?

I was also trying to work out how you could lace the wheels without the spokes crossing.

Drive side all trailing, non drive side all leading. Is that even possible?

You really need to post some pictures.

TBH I don't fully understand what you are saying. I *think *it is as follows:

1. You bought some wheels and put them on your bike. Correct?

2. Your friend doesn't think that these wheels you have bought have been properly built, but you are not actually 100% sure either way. Correct?

3. You now want to know what your options are. Correct?

I can get to Stokey and am happy to have a look, but you need to confirm the above first. In the short term a visit with the wheels to a shop should give you the answer.

Proper builders have usually built enough wheels so that they've seen a few of their own sub optimal builds that they have (hopefully) learnt from.....

Too loose and the wheel will shake loose and /or get prematurely fatigued spokes.

Too tight and the nips will pull through the rim because the rim fatigues around the hole/eyelet (aluminium alloys don't have much plastic deformation in them.

Building with too little tension is just stupid and exactly what is too little tension depends to some extent what the riders weighs and how he/she rides (eg radical sideways honking can nail even quite a well specc'ed and built wheel) also the intended use track is less demanding if all else is equal than 'cross for example)

Building with too much tension is a little more forgiveable but depends mostly on which rim is selected - so say you think you need 140kg force for the wheel to stay together (24 spoker under 100kg rider on rough roads just being slightly silly for a moment)- and then you tension a DT 1.1 like that- probably will pull through the rim in a few months. Mostly an error of rim selection, not building.

I have two dolls labelled mavic and mavic UK- I poke their heads in a candle flame weekly. Actually the tech website has useful info erd's and such, just ignore the tension recco's.

Hello all,

Thanks for your quick replies! I have taken the best photos I can, if you need to see anything else I can take some more.

The story is, the wheels came with the bike which I bought on ebay and have been restoring as my first project. I showed a friend who noticed the lacing up looked strange so I took them to a bike shop who agreed they had been done wrong and quoted £30 to re-do them.

Maybe my wording is wrong the spokes cross but don't touch hope this makes sense and the photos explain.

Yes would love to know what my options are, I believe they are going to be too week to ride like this but have no experience with wheel building so appreciate any advice. Just looking to get my bike on the road :D

Thanks

Martin

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http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad106/hugo7_photos/IMG_1779.jpg

This is a 3 cross pattern. You can tell because the crossing spoke crosses 3 other spokes - see red circles.

The way you 'thread' the crossing spoke is, 'over, over, under'. This has been done, 'over, over, over'.

So you need to re-lace them properly. This is not hard, and I suggest you do it yourself to improve your bike mec skills.

...well that's what i think form a quick look. I'm going to have another look now.

yes hugo what you say make sense. Would you be able to explain how I should go about re-threading them. is it as simple as loosening each spoke one at a time threading underneath and re tightening?

I am guessing I will then need to take them to a bike shop to get them trued after. bear in mind I have never used a spoke key before :D

I am glad it doesn't seem like a complete disaster and I shouldn't have to get new spokes right!!?

OK. After another look I'm sticking with the above. This is an easily rectifiable situation. The question you've got to ask yourself is whether the wheel is now a bit knackered and it would be worth replacing all the spokes. The cost would be c.£20.

Someone with more experience would be better placed to answer that one.

If it were me I would just relace the mislaced spoke.

Watch this series of wheel buildings:

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ku9ZsoaAqFM"]YouTube
- How to build a bike wheel Part 2.2, 36 spoke[/ame]

1.28 on that ^ one is the bit you need to re-do. Provided your spoke key fits the spokes this should be easy. You are just undoing that one spoke and then rethreading it correctly. See video and below:

[/IMG]

OK for some reason photobucket is fucking with the imbeding/linking of my edits of your image. If you need to see them and can't PM me and I'll email them to you.

Here are the links, maybe they'll work for you:

http://i926.photobucket.com/albums/ad106/hugo7_photos/IMG_1779-1.jpg

The problem is not just with one spoke!! every spoke front and back wheel is laced over over over I don't mind a bit of work sitting undoing all the spokes and poking them under if its that simple.

Wait a sec and you'll see....

You want to rethread the spokes where the 'spoke head' faces in. Circled in red. The green ones face out.

So follow each of these spokes up to the nipple, undo the nipple and rethread it going over, over, under, as per the red line, and the video series.

However... because the spokes will already have tension, you should loosen all the spokes before you start fucking with them. Do this SLOWLY. 1/4 of a turn on *every *spoke, one, by one. Then once they are looser, 1/2 a turn, then once they are really loose you can start rethreading all the ones that have the head facing inwards.

Altho it is not going to be hard, it will be time consuming. I enjoy building and truing, some people don't.

RE truing, no, you don't need to take them to a shop. You can true them yourself using your frame. This side of wheelbuilding is well covered elsewhere on the forum, so have a search and a read.

As I'm sure you'll find after doing some reading, one of the keys is doing it all slowly and bit by bit. So don't jump straight into it, do some prep.

Oh and you might want to get some tape to keep track of the spokes.

Awesome! thank you very much for your help hugo.
Just one last question. When you say I should loosen 'all the spokes' do you mean on one side, ie attached to one flange or every spoke on the wheel?

Thanks again for your help.

Martin

Good work Hugo. Repped.

My 2p. Follow Hugos advice, basically.

It'll be far easier if you loosen every spoke on the wheel, then completely detach the 'heads-in' spokes one by one and cross under for the third cross. This will be easier with a looser wheel, and retensioning should be a bit easier, when starting with all the spokes loose.

This wont take long as the shape of the wheel is'nt going to change.

Ok cheers small, I shall give it a go! Just waiting for my spoke key to arrive,

Looking for a nice person who could help me out with truing my wheels before thursday, I'm heading off to paris and need someone who lives near greenwich/blackheath, I'll pay with moneyz and beerszz :)

eharmony >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Haha :p nice one edscoble, n cheers Tiswas, I'll see if i can sort it out there tonight...any idea on where they all meet?