Cartridge vs Cup and Cone

Hey everyone,
I've just taken my BB out to give it a bit of a service and discovered that I had a Cartridge style BB instead of a Cup and Cone.

I have this:
http://www.tokyofixedgear.com/shopexd.asp?id=736

I thought I had this:
http://www.tokyofixedgear.com/shopexd.asp?id=769

I'm happy for the minute with the cartridge, but I enjoy servicing my bike and was wondering the pro's and cons for each type. I will be building a new bike from scratch over the winter as well, so wondering which type to stick in that.

If I am happy servicing my bike ever xWeeks, would the Cup and Cone style be better for me or should I just stick with the easier Cartridge ones?

Thanks for any advice
Monsta

P.s. Is there anything you can do with Cartridge BBs to make them run faster/smoother? Or are they completely sealed and in-serviceable?

Stick to cartridges for road use, there has never been a properly sealed cup and cone BB so you end up wrecking them or having to pull them apart every time it rains, which causes premature wear on your crank tapers.

If you're racing on the track, you can pull the rubber seals out of some cartridge BBs, as seal drag accounts for a significant proportion of total losses in the bearings. Some also use standard sized bearing cartridges, opening up the possibility of ceramic replacements. Notwithstanding that, you're unlikely to do better than a very high quality unsealed cup and cone unit (Sugino 75 Super Lap, Hatta R9400) with not too much grease for a super free running feel.

mdcc_testers pretty much covered it. I was using a cheap rpm BB last year, the sealed bearings developed play within their housings after only 400 miles. I'd never come across this before (the bearings were fine). I've stuck in a un54, this is what I'd recommend as far as jis goes. I am also looking for a reasonably priced, durable, sealed iso BB (109) any recommendations would be welcome.

the best cheap, sealed b/b's (iso though) are the campag ones
ran one for at least 1500 miles, before it needed replacing

about £15 a pop too

Ok great, thanks for the responses.
So I'm better off just using the Sugino RD2 BB until I feel it needs replacing, then getting another RD2? And there is nothing I can do to clean it out and re-grease etc..
I only ask as when I took it out and looked at it, it appeared that it might be possible to remove the bearing case (looks like a large skateboard bearing) from the spindle, but I didn't want to force it.

How do the Phil BB's stack up? Bearing in mind (no pun intended) that I can get 3 x Sugino RD2's for the price of one Phil...

Thanks again for the help.
Monsta

a sealed unit, is basically a throw away item, once it's knackered, replace.

For JIS cranks, Shimano's UN are the best value for money. For Campy, use Veloce or Centaur (the new, black ones) if you want something smoother.
TA is not cheap, but you can adjust the chainline, and can be easily regenerated with new bearings (<£10 on Ebay), comes in all lenghts too. Oh, JIS only AFAIK

Hmmm, MDCC, I recall a Shimano 600 BB which was well sealed- rubber washers press fitted on the BB and floated in a groove in the BB shell. Not well sealed to rust and shit falling down the seat tube of course, and only an n of 1......

the best cheap, sealed b/b's (iso though) are the campag ones
ran one for at least 1500 miles, before it needed replacing

about £15 a pop too

are you sure you don't mean 15000, 1500 seems a little low

3 months commuting in all weathers can do that.

are you sure you don't mean 15000, 1500 seems a little low

I've had what I reckon is about 2500 miles out of the BB in my OTP Plug. OK, it's still spinning, but it creaks nastily and I'd say it's definitely "got the mark".

Not sure what model it came with last year, but nowadays, that bike uses a TH Industries 7420ST. I'm assuming that's a fairly bottom-end product. So I'm agreeing that 1500 miles does sound on the low side.

If you like maintenance then get a cup and cone. They're really nice to work with and give you an opportunity to completely clean the bike. I run cup and cone hubs and BB and a cartridge headset. I'd have a cup and cone headset if I hadn't gotten a nice Dura Ace cartridge one for so cheap.

If you like maintenance then get a cup and cone. They're really nice to work with and give you an opportunity to completely clean the bike. I run cup and cone hubs and BB and a cartridge headset. I'd have a cup and cone headset if I hadn't gotten a nice Dura Ace cartridge one for so cheap.

cup and cone definitely more romantic. I think they last longer too and you need only replace the damaged part rather than throw the whole thing in the bin.

you need only replace the damaged part

So that would be the cups and the axle and the balls.

If you want "sustainable", the TA Axix is the way to go, since it uses disposable standard cartridges for all the wearing parts, and you can keep re-using the cups and axle with new cartridges time after time.

So that would be the cups and the axle and the balls.
if you've got worn cups and balls,surely the cones are f*cked as well;I've suffered loads of knackered cones.
If you want "sustainable", the TA Axix is the way to go, since it uses disposable standcartridges for all the wearing parts, and you can keep re-using the cups and axle with new cartridges time after time.
..

if you've got worn cups and balls,surely the cones are f*cked as well;I've suffered loads of knackered cones.

Exactly, and the cones in a conventional BB are integral to the axle, so if your bearings are worn, you need to replace everything - just like a "throwaway" cartridge unit.

^bollixed post
'pologies-I was thinking of hubs not BB's (sheesh-logs off and has long hot soak)

So that would be the cups and the axle and the balls.

If you want "sustainable", the TA Axix is the way to go, since it uses disposable standard cartridges for all the wearing parts, and you can keep re-using the cups and axle with new cartridges time after time.

Don't agree, it is possible that you could only have damage to the cups.

How often do you damage a BB, rather than wear it out? Anyway, the TA Axix still wins, because you can buy all the parts as spares. Try that with your fancy NJS Hatta or Sugino.

Don't agree, it is possible that you could only have damage to the cups.

IDamaged cups(bearing surface)wrecks balls;wrecked balls wreck cups and cones.That's what I find,but I'm only me

are you sure you don't mean 15000, 1500 seems a little low

oops, you're dead right, 5000 a year and 3 years worth

Cool, a lot of useful info here. I think I'm going to stick with cartridge BB's as they seem the best for commuting in different weather etc. I agree with "conservative_values" about cup and cone being more romantic though and I'd enjoy a weekend of taking my bike apart, cleaning and re-greasing everything, but I think the cons outweigh the pro's...

They're both good. Sealed is set and forget, but they are heavier and have a little more drag unless it's a top of line one. Cup and cone are lighter and generally spin better in my experience. The bearings are also closer to the crank arms. I've got the original cup and cone BB in my tourer. It's a tange with seals etc. Must be close to 20 years old and still going strong. I serviced it (just a clean and regrease) before going on tour and had to adjust it once in 2500kms of touring in all weathers.

The bearings are also closer to the crank arms.

Not necessarily. I have a square taper cartridge bearing BB in my lo-pro which has the outer edges of the bearing outside the width of the BB shell.

i've got a campag cartridge that'sbeen on the bike for years, done quite a few miles, still turns smoothly.
i'd stick with a cartridge