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I'm just pointing out that just because a frame is heavier doesn't mean that it's shit. I would accept what you said earlier if you actually knew what grade metals they both are etc. but it would seem that you don't know shit from chocolate.

This is true (the weight thing, not the shit thing. I hope). Especially for track frames where weight is less important. More material does not always mean stronger though, and certainly doesnt mean high end. Its often the butting and working of metals that dictates the price not the metal itself.

Having said that. I commute on a heavy as hell cheap alu frame, and it rides quite well. So I should'nt knock it.