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He is selling things that are bound to fail...? second hand brake cables? has the man no fucking scruples? they cost 99p in wilkos? he has an account at fishers and is putting on second hand brake cables...? even Unicrates have new (but crappy) brake cables?
for that alone he needs a fucking good kick in the balls?Ed (i think) is also self employed...? what does any of this have to do with whether or not 'Mr Caramel' builds shit bikes?
You backing the small guy in this case is so fucking deluded because in this case...the poor cunt that bought his shit heap bicycle is the small guy?
can you hear your self now?
Wingedangel, you certainly are an interesting person. Maybe an acquired taste, but truly interesting.
I have not supported any company in their selling of shoddy or dangerous equipment. I never have, and I naver will. Please read the sentence again, as it is carefully worded. I know that your first reaction is of the blunderbuss type, but I have said, and reiterate, that I do NOT support shoddy and dangerous goods.
Edscoble is self-employed to a point. You will need to find out his financial situation by discussing it with him directly. I'll say this though, when I was in business, I didn't have anyone else standing by to bail me out, and I paid my VAT and taxes in full. It killed me. Like I said, I don't know Ed's case, so I can't agree or disagree. I do have thoughts, but they are private, and will not be aired.
I am not deluded. There are 2 different types of small guy in the case. A sole trader that has just started up a small company, and a single person looking to buy a bargain bike cheaply, and getting a poorly put together bike. I won't defend that. Thats what it was. But a company and an individual can both be the small guy, but only one can lose everything in reputation, and in finance. Say the individual has bought a bike for 400 quid, and its a lemon. He may lose the 400, or get his money back, or have the item put right. The small company on the other hand, through bad press (their own fault), because of poor products, could go under. And when that goes under, we're talking about a place to live.....everything.
As it is Caramel Cycles may and may not survive this onslaught. It was wrong to sell below standard items, especially if they didn't meet legal requirements. No-one will ever defend that. Not me. Not anybody. I have only taken the position, that anyone can fuck things up, even badly....and should still be allowed to straighten things out.
If prisoners can be rehabilitated, then surely its not as hard for a retailer.
Last point. If a company has a flawed or bad business model, and they are called out on it, how long would people expect it would take to make a new plan, and head in a new direction? 5 minutes? 10 seconds? 2 weeks? Well, I don't know about dancing_james, who appears to act as if such a thing could/should be done instantly. I only know James' field of work via a newpaper article that also showed his photo. Witht hat in mind, I can honestly say that I have never had such a protected job. Its well known that local and national government jobs, come with good pensions, and heavy union backing. The jobs are about the safest to have, and best to keep, just about anywhere. Its a different life to being a contractor, or self-employed, or having your own business. None of the government workers' job safety is to be had. Its dog eat dog, or rather Lfgss eat Caramel.
If Caramel don't survive, its because they deserve that. But if they do, its because they worked fucking hard to turn things around, and succeeded. Though I'm quite confident, that no matter if they become a sort of Condor Cycles in 10 years time, some will never forgive......and just keep on the thoughts in this thread. And thats just the way the world is.
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I'm only self employee as another mean of earning extra on the side by being a decorator/DIY (surprisingly easy if you grew up with a DIY dad/grandad), much like a windows cleaner, rather than a proper way of supporting myself in the long run.
All I know, is that some of us on here, are a bit envious of your disposable income......as you have a different bike almost for every new season! ;)
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Wingedangel, you certainly are an interesting person. Maybe an acquired taste, but truly interesting.
I have not supported any company in their selling of shoddy or dangerous equipment. I never have, and I naver will. Please read the sentence again, as it is carefully worded. I know that your first reaction is of the blunderbuss type, but I have said, and reiterate, that I do NOT support shoddy and dangerous goods.
Edscoble is self-employed to a point. You will need to find out his financial situation by discussing it with him directly. I'll say this though, when I was in business, I didn't have anyone else standing by to bail me out, and I paid my VAT and taxes in full. It killed me. Like I said, I don't know Ed's case, so I can't agree or disagree. I do have thoughts, but they are private, and will not be aired.
I am not deluded. There are 2 different types of small guy in the case. A sole trader that has just started up a small company, and a single person looking to buy a bargain bike cheaply, and getting a poorly put together bike. I won't defend that. Thats what it was. But a company and an individual can both be the small guy, but only one can lose everything in reputation, and in finance. Say the individual has bought a bike for 400 quid, and its a lemon. He may lose the 400, or get his money back, or have the item put right. The small company on the other hand, through bad press (their own fault), because of poor products, could go under. And when that goes under, we're talking about a place to live.....everything.
As it is Caramel Cycles may and may not survive this onslaught. It was wrong to sell below standard items, especially if they didn't meet legal requirements. No-one will ever defend that. Not me. Not anybody. I have only taken the position, that anyone can fuck things up, even badly....and should still be allowed to straighten things out.
If prisoners can be rehabilitated, then surely its not as hard for a retailer.
Last point. If a company has a flawed or bad business model, and they are called out on it, how long would people expect it would take to make a new plan, and head in a new direction? 5 minutes? 10 seconds? 2 weeks? Well, I don't know about dancing_james, who appears to act as if such a thing could/should be done instantly. I only know James' field of work via a newpaper article that also showed his photo. Witht hat in mind, I can honestly say that I have never had such a protected job. Its well known that local and national government jobs, come with good pensions, and heavy union backing. The jobs are about the safest to have, and best to keep, just about anywhere. Its a different life to being a contractor, or self-employed, or having your own business. None of the government workers' job safety is to be had. Its dog eat dog, or rather Lfgss eat Caramel.
If Caramel don't survive, its because they deserve that. But if they do, its because they worked fucking hard to turn things around, and succeeded. Though I'm quite confident, that no matter if they become a sort of Condor Cycles in 10 years time, some will never forgive......and just keep on the thoughts in this thread. And thats just the way the world is.
i'm not sure whether you are mental, drunk, or a just a frustrated speech writer. either way its comedy gold.
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Carson, its frustrating to try to impart a simple principle to those that choose to be blind or deaf.
Glad you got some amusement out of it.
Not drunk, and not mental (as far as I know), and not a speech writer.
I'll tell you this though, and others on here know it as well....that if I believe in something, I stand by it....be it a principle, or a person, or both.
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What if I started up a PHARMACY, and didn't know all that I should? I made a few fuck-ups, and some were properly bad ones, but when pointed out, I tried to remedy them. Keeping in mind that I still had to pay rent, and also eat. Should I sell nothing and die of starvation, while I try to get everything up to speed, or should I just do the best I could in the circumstances?
It seems to me, that the people that have complained (and rightly so I believe) have not owned their own companies, or started up their own companies. I was self-employed once, and was doing a good job, I thought. But in the end it folded. Why? Because I didn't know all that I should have. I like to see people succeeding, not failing. Maybe thats the difference between me and so many others, on here. Its not comedic to me if someone has to file for bankruptcy. I know people who have, and I once came very close to it. Its really a harsh thing to happen to someone.
I am not deluded. I just have always backed the small guy. Sorry if that upsets so many.
Context Ashe, substitute the word pharmacy for cycle shop and I doubt that you would be quite so magnanimous… The guy is putting together bikes that have the very real possibility of endangering the purchasers well-being, it's not like his selling dodgy t-shirts.
That's why he should stop trading until he gets qualified and I can't rationalise your defence of his right to trade, would you afford the same slack attitude to a self-employed car mechanic that indulged in the same practices [either through stupidity or a desire to make a quick buck]?
I don't buy into your indulgence of his foolishness by using his self-employment as some kind of 'get out of jail free card'. I'm self employed and if I didn't deliver the final product to my client with due care and diligence then I would have ceased trading many years ago
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Wayne, you and I have a certain understanding on this forum. I trust you, and you know it. If you tell me that I've gone left when I should have turned right, I have always listened to you. I may not listen to everybody, but I've always listened to you, because you give good advice.
I have not said to Caramel Cycles, go ahead as you are. In fact, just the opposite. I strongly suggested stopping bike assembly and to concentrate on component sales. The only thing I hoped for, was that through component sales, they could make a better fist of running the company. I told them that they should stay away from the bikes side of the business, especially if they didn't meet the standards at all.
Would you have expected less of me?
I hope the company survives, but also, that they leave bike assembly and sales, to people who actually are trained properly to do so.
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Is it bumpy? Would the gf be ok riding an ss?
It is quite bumpy, I rode in on an mtb and the GF of the time (2002) hired one from bridge cycle hire (which we were able to take away and use for other rides).
I did see some people struggling on road bikes, some bits really chop up, but fixies hadn't been invented back then so MTB was the only serious choice.
She'll enjoy it a LOT more on something with fat tyres. -
not sure if it's changed since I went, but some parts were too rough for road bikes back then, byno means impossible, plenty of people walked over the difficult bits, and it is supposed to be a family trail.
It's nice when you get to padstow you can have a guinness and laugh at the posh people. -
I can't belive people have been have been ranting about this all night. All night. Jesus....
it's not exactly all night, I just keep different hours than most 'normal' people...think of it as being late supper...
and GAG, thanks for the interesting thing...I truly am....though more importantly, thanks for the selective quoting. I am not blunderbussing any argument...I am gobsmacked that anyone that has built or ridden a bike for more than 2-3 years...ie so you know how to do some basic maintainance, or have friends that will do it for you, could fail to see (as you seem to be doing) just how crap and pathetic your counter argument to him being a misguided tosser are ...
BDW...hit the nail squarely, He is self employed. if he had traded in such a fashion, he would be out of business. I would...anyone would and that is what is deserved of such a bad business model...I know...I'll go into brain surgery...I have read a couple of books, removed a splinter or two...I pierced my own ear for chrissakes...whassa problem?
It is that simple. I can find no moral compass to help me understand your direction.
If he really wants to do everyone a favour...ok,...spend the next 2 days honouring you, rewrite the web pages to only accomodate parts sales, and take down all the shit alluding to his bikes being the next 'condor'...
Oh, and maybe you should wind your neck in regarding how 'hard' you are and who threatens you...
At 19 stone...your a fat cunt, you maybe 6' 5''...(I dont know, though whatever height you may be??) even at that height you still have a tyre you could lose...bruce lee weighed ten stone wet through...and would have kicked your arse around the park until you weighed considerably less...
'bear' that in mind, when comparing size with ability ... ok?
aha...the inevitable one other thing...please stop referring to 'caramel cycles' as some sort of burgeoning rebel within a hostile environment.....it's not a 'small' company...it's a one man band that made fucking crappy bikes by ripping people off...
It's not some bespoke 531 master we are resigning to the dhss...it's a guy that knows fuck all about bikes being turned back to the 'what is my next direction' square in lifes rich board game...he shouldn't have started with bikes in the first place? they are NOT rocket science...they are really fucking easy to do if you have a modicum of fabricating talent?
this should tell him to look for something else to do and stop diluting the already 'saturated with shit' bike market with even more?
this isn't some great loss...this is a chancer that has had his fingers burnt...the world is full of them and the fact that one less would be ripping off the unsuspecting is a good thing...
not a bad one.
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Wingedangel, yes, I would expect CaramelCycles to stop selling built up bikes, till at least they can do so properly. AND that the website reflect that also. I have no way of forcing this through or anything, but it is my hope. I also mentioned that I thought it unreasonable for people to expect a company to do a complete change of direction in seconds or minutes. I would imagine it could take a few weeks.
And, as for the wind my neck in remark.......I think you're being purposefully obtuse. I was threatened by someone. I didn't threaten them. I laughed at him and made it plain to that person how ridiculous his threat was. No, I will never divulge that person's name........but I was amused and surprised, as he's a very popular person on this forum.
Leave my fatness out of it mate. Unlike other fatties, who might be wishing they could look like Brad Pitt, or better yet, like CoppiThat........I'm okay as I am thanks. I'm only 5' 9", so am way overweight, but unperturbed by that. I feel that I'm not in perfect health, but I'm in reasonable health.....for a very big person. My life is good, and I'm as active as I want to be. My physical performances when required better most peoples....and I say that seriously. I'd rather be a draught horse than a whippet, thanks.
RPM, the wheels are flip-flops, and I have already said how I would he testing them. It's also pretty well know that I don't ride fixed either.
I also continue to maintain my right, to wish to see a company change and survive, rather than be killed off by those who wish no other outcome. I have NO vested interest in that company. But even if the guy has done badly, and he has, rather than kill off his company, I'd like to see him do all the right things. If it fails, it fails. If it succeeds, I'll applaude.
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Oh, and to Wingedangel, and others that will come back on here to forcefully show me the error of my ways, may I ask that you all not be so belligerent? All the points made simply attempt to get me from being the one person in the room with a different line of thinking. That doesn't require the type of stance adopted against me. It's a free country, and I think all of us appreciate our right to free thought.
I have not backed the said company AS IT IS, but have repeatedly said, that I back their possibility of change and improvement. A person doesn't change and improve after being shot dead. And that's my point. If given a little chance, change and improvement CAN happen.
It just seems a shame that the bloodlust on here is so powerful. Do remember, I do not, and cannot support a company that will actively endanger people. Never. I haven't spoken to CaramelCycles since I visited, but if they haven't stopped selling built up bikes, of the type that they are now regretting.....then I cannot support any single thing that they do.
By the way, does anybody know if they actually have sold even one built up bike AFTER Nhatt got that badly put together example into her shop? I'd be surprised if they have. And if they are still selling such bikes, I'd avoid them like the plague, and not write one word in support of them, or in wishing them a new chance. That's a promise.
But if they have ALREADY stopped selling such bikes, then what exactly is the problem? All changes require ay least a little time. Maybe the arguments are moot, if the bike side of that company has ceased? I don't know this, but it seems that no-one has even given this a thought. It's just all attack, attack, attack. Which of course, is strange to me.
GA2G
edscoble
carson
big_daddy_wayne
n3il
hippy
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About
Caramel cycles - £200 track bikes
Posted by
@dancing james
And who was the person that said that they would be reviewing Caramel Cycles Ed?
Have you been drinking the same stuff Dylan has, because I fear its a bit too strong.
As far as I know, no-one is reviewing Caramel Cycles. And if a review were done of their business now, I'm sure it wouldn't do well. Though its my feeling that 6 months from now, the same "reviewer" might have a different assessment.