Rear wheel sideways "play"

^ Agreed .. I have wheels mate on my mountain bike that are cheap as chips ... got the bearings showing .. still run all right .. Got the made in China label on it as well.

There are some total lies on this forum that seem to be perpetuated.

There is a massive difference between a formula hub which is totally decent but fairly reasonably priced and total crap kit which breaks.

more so for the on-one hubs as they are even half price of those ^

Jimbo - it sounds similar to your situation with having to muck about with the cones when you take the wheel off, what part exactly do you mean may be worn out - I didn't see any bearings racers as I understand the term?

the racers/races? are the groove in which the bearings sit. If they are machined properly and in good nick and the bearings are good it should be all smooth and lovely. If however, like my pretty much wrecked hub, there has been side to side play issues and the bearings have been wearing the groove down and deforming themselves and the groove then you just continue to get problems. to see if this has happened you take your bearings out, remove dust caps and clean your races. if they are shiny and lovely and feel smooth then good, if they are scratched up or have areas which look dirty or worn and feel rough and dont clean up then you probably have a problem.

on this subject I have a still good set of alexrims laced to my knackered hubs I think I am just gonna buy a pair of SJS sealed bearing hubs and some spokes and install those in place of my knackered hubs. does anyone see anything logically wrong with this proposal at first glance other than being time consuming and needing some wheelbuilding skills?

Just replaced a hub with this exact problem, If you've been riding with loose cones on a solid axle then resulting play in the axle is enough that the bearings push out against the hub wrecking it.

Jimbo - no reason not to re-use the rim.

wrong. as for bearings, tight it has to be. in case of cup and cone, where you set the tension, it has to be tight but not so much as in 'it makes you feel the balls through the axle' kind of thing. you'll notice once you try, but no play. once you got past that point, give it a tad more and try spinning the axle.

a bit loose is loose and will be much worse under load. a bearing with play rattles itself to death in no time.

im talking about .1-.2 mm here,
with plenty of services (wipe, degrease and re-lubricate with finishline teflon bearing grease) ive had no problems, hubs on about 4000 miles,cup and cones are still ok and bearing are just starting to dull down a bit
will replace cup,cone and bearings soon though

to replace the cup, you will need to get a new hub shell as the cup race is embedded in it. the cone and bearings (loose or encaged) are replaceable.

It really pays to UTFS.

I noticed yesterday when I picked up my bike to go outside, that there was a feeling of something moving - I always pick up a bike by the saddle and the h/bars.

Upon investigation, I noticed there was "play" at the rear wheel. I've never had that before. I could well be, as discussed above, that when I was using the degreaser, some went into the rear hub. Its quite a bit of play, but I'm hoping it lasts 3 days, then I'll take it to Vaidas - my first visit to his shop.

It really pays to UTFS.

I noticed yesterday when I picked up my bike to go outside, that there was a feeling of something moving - I always pick up a bike by the saddle and the h/bars.

Upon investigation, I noticed there was "play" at the rear wheel. I've never had that before. I could well be, as discussed above, that when I was using the degreaser, some went into the rear hub. Its quite a bit of play, but I'm hoping it lasts 3 days, then I'll take it to Vaidas - my first visit to his shop.

It wouldn't be from the degreaser, it would more likely be that when tightening the track nuts the cone nuts moved.
It can easily be fixed using two cone spanners (pictured above) and 1234's steps:

take the wheel out
make sure one cup and cone are locked nice and tightly together
put the wheel back in the frame and tighten up the axle nut on the tight cup and cone to hold the wheel in the frame so you can adjust the loose one accordingly
start with the loose cone, adjust it until there's no play in the wheel, then undo it just a fraction (when you tighten up the cones locknut it will compress the cone a tad), hold the cone in the same position with a spanner and tighten up the cones locknut, see if the wheel is nice and smooth then adjust if needs be (it might take a couple of go's)
tighten up the axle nut and go for a ride

But make sure to tighten that locknut up as hard as you can, and keep the cone spanner on the locknut to make sure it doesn't move when tightening up the track nut. My wheel's been perfect for the past 3 weeks since following the advice in this thread.

Thanks for that. It certainly sounds like a possibility. I'll check it out.

I read this thread:
http://www.lfgss.com/thread44426.html
but I'm not sure I have the same type of hub as I don't see any cone.

This morning I wasn't able to move the wheel sideways. At the end of a ride later today it started rattling a bit when riding on cobblestones (which it has not done before). I'm able to move the wheel sideways about 3mm. I can only do it when the wheel is in a certain position. I have to grab and wiggle the affected part of the wheel. When I turn the wheel a half turn it doesn't wiggle. The bike is only a week old.

Here are two pictures:

warranty? after a week it should not do that. ...unless you got a unipac/create then you already exceeded the lifespan of it by factor two.

what is th emake of the bike or wheel if it is custom build? i would guess system x hub.

what worries me is the bit that says 'only in a certain position'. but in my understanding it would still only be a bearing issue if 1. the nuts are all tight 2. the whole wheel slides on the axle back and forth.

either bike shop (warranty) or if competent yourself (tools?) open it up and get new bearings.

where is the bike from?

please do not say caramel cycles

That's boring James. A record stuck on one part isn't thrilling or clever.

No defending on this occasion, but I do think you need to get more sex in your life. Seriously.

CaramelCycles Ho Ho Ho. Fucking yawn James. Fucking yawn.

Ashe

I was just wondering, especially considering the last one of their bikes that came to our attention had failed in less than a day, and this was after you came back waving the wheels doing your "i have a piece of paper, signed by Mr Hitler" routine.

You want it to go to bed because you ended up with metaphorical jism all over your face.

I wish to see what the outcome is.

Are you constantly searching for caramel or just following my posts?

looks like it is a khs flite, so not a caramel bike

Cheap wheels ill always have a little bit of play. But we are talking 2-3mm at the tyre.

Aaaaaaaaaannnnd, so do very expensive ones.

Bearings perform differently under load, ask Mr Zipp.

yea, but play with a rattling sound while riding is asking for wear in no time. just saying, when i feel or hear play, it's time for a grease repack and retightening of my (wheel) bearings and axle nuts. usually every 1000-1500mi. (i am anal about greased up bearings, i like it [STRIKE]juicy[/STRIKE] greasy!)

of course, there is always such a thing as too much, just as too much tightness can also cause advanced wear.

sure, for cup and cone, unlikely for cartridge bearings as the axle usually has a lip or shoulder to hold the inner race in place when tightened to avoid said sideload.

Are you constantly searching for caramel or just following my posts?

Posts 32 and 34 are mine, therefore this thread is on subscription.
I thought you've been here long enough to know things like this?

warranty? after a week it should not do that. ...unless you got a unipac/create then you already exceeded the lifespan of it by factor two.
Bike was bought from UK, I'm in sweden. So, I'd rather try fixing it myself. It's a KHS Flite 100. Noname (?) hubs.

What does the bolt closest to the wheel do? Should this be tightened? Any recommendation on a tutorial for "repackacking and retightening of the wheel bearings and axle nuts"?

ah right. to fix it yourself, go get a set of cone spanners that fit your nuts. cone spanners are especially slim to fit next to each other in that small space. but the outer nut seems rather big, so i would think you need a 17 spanner. you might do with one cone spanner (usually 15, but do check). these axle lock nuts are known to slip if not tightened enough or if they feel like it during doing or undoing the track nuts.

to repack the bearings and tension them:
-get the cone spanners and the assumed 17 spanner
-get grease that doesn't wash out easily (if it's a particular wet part of sweden try cheap marine grease but it might weaken your rubber bearing shields)
-take the wheel out
-loosen and remove the nuts on both sides
-google a 'clean skateboard bearings' tutorial
-pop the shield
-degrease it with wd40, degreaser or alcohol (eh err sorry, you are in sweden, don't use alcohol! keep it for a house party or summing)
-apply a generous amount of grease (every excess will bleed out)
-close the shield
-tighten the 1st nuts on either side good and against each other (the thin cone spanners woun't give you enough force to destroy the axle)
-tighten the lock nuts the same way.
-reinsert wheel
-chaintension

wheelies till it rattles again

the bearings don't need to spin freely and with speed in your fingers when packed with grease. don't worry, they'll be supersmooth under load and the grease en' masse protects the inside from water and stuff coming in during wet weather rides.

look, like this guy did:

The evening's entertainment:

although i'm not too fond of the dry lube for chains myself, but that is mere personal err gutfeeling. finishline crosscountry wet lube every day for meee.