Limitations to training on singlespeed?

You're doing it for more than 20 seconds!

Fixed.

Suffering has different levels of meaning semantically, and more than one can be applied in the context of cycling.

Suffering has different levels of meaning semantically, and more than one can be applied in the context of cycling.

Correct.

Is puking in a bucket after an effort really "suffering" ?

Gotta get real, people puke all the time on Saturday nights from boozing and they do that for fun.

I think suffering is psychological not physical. I suffer a lot.

You don't suffer fools though.

Not gladly

[st][/st]

What's the reasoning behind fixed training in the winter as you understand it clubman?

From what I gather its to keep the pedalling technique in top form, promote the suppleness in the legs before trying harder efforts to get in form for the season.

I'm not completely sure I fully understand the reasons. Two minor reasons are:

Tradition. For some people the mere fact that something has been done decade in,decade out is enough to suggest that there may be something in it. Of course, there are many who take the opposite view: if something's been done the same way for a long time, it must be out of date.

Economy. Perhaps not a factor today, but we used to think it was best to keep our more fragile geared bikes in the shed (or perhaps the bedroom) until the severe weather and the salt had gone.

I think there are probably two good reasons apart from these. Firstly, as others have said, there is the strength with suppleness argument - this would apply at any time of year, but if you're going to ride fixed for only part of the year then winter seems the obvious time to do it. Secondly, winter conditions lend themselves to long, steady distance riding - and this has generally been the style of early season training runs. If you're setting out, in a group, to do,say 60-90 miles at a steady 17-20 mph then a single gear in the 65 - 70" range should be perfectly adequate from a speed point of view, and at the same time it should avoid the draining effect of trying to push too big a gear at too early a stage in your programme.

If you're setting out, in a group, to do,say 60-90 miles at a steady 17-20 mph then a single gear in the 65 - 70" range should be perfectly adequate from a speed point of view

Yeah, but you know some bugger is going to come out on 76" and call "sign" just as he comes flying through from the back at 25mph

Why is that?

Why aim to ride in a group with strong riders?

It makes you work harder.

It develops your technique, both because you are forced to refine your style to economise on effort, and because you have the opportunity to observe the skills that the others have already perfected.

With any luck it helps to create or strengthen relationships, which are a major part of what this game is about.

To go back to Boucher and Anquetil for a moment, Jacques was the strongest rider around, so unable even to train with his equals, he would ride behind Boucher's Derny pacer.

To answer mdcc tester's point about the need to have similar abilities, I'd say that once you have mastered the technique of group riding, which is basically being able to follow a wheel, it is quite possible to have a range of strength within a group. The better riders do more work at the front.

To answer mdcc tester's point about the need to have similar abilities, I'd say that once you have mastered the technique of group riding, which is basically being able to follow a wheel, it is quite possible to have a range of strength within a group.

For a steady ride, of course. I could sit on the wheel of much faster riders than myself if they weren't actively trying to drop me, but modern training is all about intervals. If I do 4 minutes towing somebody good, I'm not going to be able to hold their wheel while they do their fast effort and I'm supposed to be resting. If I go out with somebody substantially slower than me, they will be shagged out following my wheel while I do my fast bit and they won't be able to put much in when it's their turn on the front. It works on the track when there is a tempo group above the blue line and you do your interval on the black line before swinging back up into the group, but on the road you end up spread all over the countryside, or alternatively nobody gets the workout they need.

Group rides have their uses, but mainly they are about practising group riding, not about developing fitness beyond a very basic level of aerobic conditioning, improving pedalling efficiency by creating muscle memory and, for people who need it, burning off some of the lard they put on after the end of last season, and even for that, high intensity intervals seem to be a more time efficient way to drop some weight.

Why aim to ride in a group with strong riders?

It makes you work harder.

No it doesn't. Being motivated makes you work harder. Riding with a group of strong riders might motivate you, but it can also demoralize some riders, so it's not a panacea.

Yeah, but you know some bugger is going to come out on 76" and call "sign" just as he comes flying through from the back at 25mph

I will not be referred to as a 'bugger', and I will do it on 70", or 65" in the winter :p

Why aim to ride in a group with strong riders?

It makes you work harder.

It develops your technique, both because you are forced to refine your style to economise on effort, and because you have the opportunity to observe the skills that the others have already perfected.

There are too many variables for this to be anything other than conjecture. Group riding has it's benefits, but it's far from the be-all and end-all of training.

All but one of the things you mention above can be worked on alone.

Anyway, we all know "training for sportives" means a 3k carbon bike and getting an expensive program off an online "coach" who you never meet.

Sorry for a bit of a boring story, but i think it fits here

My dad (now 77) was a great road racer and grass track racer in Ireland in the 50s/60s as i grew up in the 80s/90s he would take me out training and i loved his stories of how training should be a pleasure. All i remember other people saying was "no pain no gain".

Anyway my dad would hang the geared bikes up on 1st October and from then to 1st March it was 'fixed gear' only, adding a tooth here and there to get the power back, i would even have to ride my first few TT's of the year fixed (undergeared), getting faster and faster, desperate to get the geared bike down to finally throw everything at the TT course.

Since those days i have i great fondness for riding fixed, it's just great.

If it's TT and Sportives your riding, fixed will do you the world of good. Keeping a sensible gear stops you blowing a gasket after 20miles, and you will always finish.

My dad told me once that he rode his track bike from cork to tipperary (60miles) for a grass track event (25 mile), with his cane race wheels (wtf!) over each handlebar. Whats more he rode back after!! 145 miles in total on 46x15

your dad = my new hero

your dad = my new hero

He has some great stories

Oh and he never had brakes or a helmet either, but made sure i did lol

I will not be referred to as a 'bugger', and I will do it on 70", or 65" in the winter :p

Yes, and you're probably the sort of rider who's still in the group at the top of the last hill before home!

To answer some other points:

Whatever I say I only ever claim to be my opinion; it's up to readers to decide whether it has any validity. I never claim to be scientific, modern, or quoting from some holy writ.

I certainly did not intend to imply that early season fixed wheel runs were the be all and end all of training, nor that they were a panacea. I enjoyed them, and that enjoyment has helped in sustaining my interest in the sport over many years, even though I can't claim they resulted in brilliant palmares for my own career. Some others seem at least not to have been harmed by the practice - I refer you to the back of the CTT handbook, the 'past champions' section. Look at the team winners for the longer distances. Of course our successes were mainly in the 70's and the 90's and maybe the system will never work again in the 'modern' era.

I think we've wandered too far from the original question at the top of this thread, and I'm about to go off on holiday - so I don't intend to post here again.

When I come back in September I intend to start serious training for next January's training runs.

I'm the sort of rider who's way ahead of the group at the top of the last hill before home ;)

Have a nice holiday.

Regarding all this talk of riding fixed for winter training, what is the etiquette of turning up to a group ride on a fixed gear bike? Is it acceptable or is there some reason why one shouldn't?

In a discussion on another forum people seem to think that it is inherently dangerous, but so long as you have the legs to stay with your group I don't see why it would be any different to riding in a group on a geared bike?

I think it's fine if you're confident. Just let people know at the outset, and tell them you'll either string out on the descents as you would on gears, or spin your 65" past all of them :D

Other than riding elbow to elbow around tight corners, I'd say it's inherently less dangerous.

What other forum?

Depends on the rider but the riding is different to gears depending on the terrain.. it can upset the bunch when everyone is going for lower gears or whatever and fixed rider has to get out of the saddle or when cruising along and fixed rider is spinning his arse off to keep up. It really depends is about all I can say.

If the fixed rider was on here I'd obviuosly avoid their crash-ridden arse like the plague.

Mixed format has worked very well on most TNRC outings, which usually involves a whole spectrum of group riding styles, from audax to chaingang.

Shouldn't be a problem for any semi-accomplished rider. There are a different set of issues for the lone geared rider in a fixed group - different, but no more or less challenging.

What other forum?

There's another forum ????

Cheers, largely confirms what I thought.

The other forum was TriTalk ... [hangs head in shame] yes, I am a triathlete [/hangs head in shame].

What's the TriTalk attitude towards riding with aerobars on a group ride, out of interest?