-
You lost me in terms of having a sensible discussion when near the very start of your response you said:
"Or are you saying that every time I see a cop doing his job and pulling folk over I should suck his cock/lick her minge in a frenzy of gratitude?"
Hardly surprising I couldn't take you seriously after that really is it?
Good to see you've resorted back to form and have started the profanity again. It never fails to amaze me how 'tough' some people are on the interwebz, usually those that have the most to prove.
Well side-stepped. Again. Now you're diverting the argument away from all the previous quoted statements contradicting you to the fact that I swear. Making you even more sanctimonious in the process, and then topped off with another nice dollop of massive generalisation. Well done Van Uden. Fucking top class fucking reasoning there.
This is an adult forum. Adult language may be used. Otherwise go and chat about pashleys at mrs miggins's tea room. As for being 'tough' again, I haven't threatened you at any point, or even come close, so it seems your appraisal of that is as frail as your poor delicate sensibilities. Massive dose of HTFU for you...
-
Of course they get it wrong sometimes but I'd like to see you do a better job.
As soon as I see the 'I'd like to see you do better' argument deployed to shield poor practice my heart sinks a little.
Sure you might complain that your local hospital has an appalling hygiene problem, with a death rate triple that of the national average, the surgeons, on a regular basis, performing sub-standard and often badly executed surgical procedures, the X-ray machine is poorly (and dangerously) calibrated and MSRA infection has been left to drift out of control.
But what do you know about any of these things ? About calibrating an X-ray machine or complex surgery or running a hospital ?
So how can you complain ?
When the police get it wrong it's your duty to complain, ceaselessly, until they get it right, that's the process that civilised us.
I've noticed recently there have been quite a few police success stories and they largely get ignored or the 'success' is that of the poster and not the police.
It's simply the nature of how we work, we tend not to stand up and clap when someone makes it to work on time, but plenty of people will complain if you are rarely or never on time.
The police's job (like everyone else's) is to get it right, that's what we pay them for and what they are trained to do, that's why they are given extraordinary powers, - "a few police success stories" is nothing to start clapping about anymore than a few dentist success stories.
Or as Alan Partridge said: "Everyone goes on about the sinking of the Titanic, but what about those two thousand miles of perfectly incident free cruising" (Or words to that effect). The point being nobody claps when the surgeon takes out the` cancerous lung instead of the healthy one.
Don't get me wrong, there are many times when I have thought that the police are brilliant, they are undoubtedly a much needed factor in the smooth running of things, they probably do remarkable, unseen and unreported acts every day of the week - nobody is complaining about that - but too often they can be wilfully aggressive, unnecessarily officious, petty, authoritarian, wilfully violent and it is not unknown for them to be vindictive enough to fabricate evidence to make a charge stick - that is what pisses people off.
I have a theory about this. It's simply because it's 'cool' to dis the po po.
I think this is silly, you have condensed a complex issue into a schoolyard taunt, there may be an element of truth in your idea, but you have to take onboard why it might be cool to call the police cunts ?
This is an arm of the state that has been - after prolonged investigation by governmental bodies - been labelled 'racist', it has recently been re-confirmed, that little or no progress has been made in this area - if you're black, Asian (and so on) and you interact with the police you should expect from them worse treatment, more chance of being arrested, more chance of having charges brought, more chances of being convicted. Maybe these people just think it's cool to complain if and when they do ?
Next time before posting some derogatory comment about them for the sake of it or to be seen to be 'cool' try growing up a bit first.
Hmmm . . . you seem to have an answer to your own question, the reason the police are often held in contempt is because it is cool to do so ?
-
You lost me in terms of having a sensible discussion when near the very start of your response you said:
"Or are you saying that every time I see a cop doing his job and pulling folk over I should suck his cock/lick her minge in a frenzy of gratitude?"
Hardly surprising I couldn't take you seriously after that really is it?
Oh get off your high horse !!
: )
Part of your opening gambit was the conclusion that your opponents in this debate where childish and simply trying to be 'cool' and needed to 'grow up' - before you had heard anything anyone had to say.
"Next time before posting some derogatory comment about them for the sake of it or to be seen to be 'cool' try growing up a bit first."
Nobody got indignant and said "you lost me in terms of having a sensible discussion".
-
Fact - I like police when they come running to calm down my neighbour, I like it less when they knock my door, I hate them when they ignore my call following some aggro on the street.
Fact - My brother in law who's of West Indian appearance despite being in his 40s, having steady job with the NHS, university degree and a mortgage is being stopped in his car on a weekly basis. Sometimes his car was searched. On the other hand, I've been never stopped despite driving for ten years in this country.
Opinion - They are pretty good with domestics when the both attacker and the victim leave under the confirmed address and the disturbance was reported to them, It takes them two days, but they will get there. If the attacker is black, they will pay the visit the same day.
They are pretty shit when is up to them to investigate the crime. -
Ahhh Shut up Mick! I love you.
Up until 2001 we had an almost entirely Protestant police force in a state where pretty much every Protestant was a Unionist and pretty much every Catholics was a Nationalist. The police helping Catholics was akin to helping out your enemy. And they could be utter bastards at times.
-
I have never once had a positive experience with the police. They even wouldn't let me report my passport stolen a few months ago. Other times include getting punched in the back of the head with out warning because I was walking in a park after it was closed (note it had no gates or signs posted). And trying to point out that a bunch of kids where beating on one down the block and they kept trying to figure out a way to arrest me, then they wouldn't even get out of the car and help the kid who got his face stomped in.
I mean I'm glad the police are there and I know they have had a hard job and I wouldn't want to do it or anything. But I have never really found a personal reason to not avoid any and all interaction with on duty cops.
-
In my opinion people should stop complaining about the police.
I don't think they always do the right thing, but can we expect perfection from everybody?
I see many other professionals who do a crap job and never get bitched about and I can't claim to have never been negligent in my own work.Maybe we should do "job swap" and see how easy it is to do
Or maybe we should do an international police exchange and have police from russia for a week, maybe that would open some eyes. -
Oh get off your high horse !!
: )
No !
:)
Of course my opening gambit was inflammatory. And based on a generalisation that's difficult if not impossible to prove. But that's obvious. It's like saying 'I think you hate cheese because it's yellow and therefore you're racist'. However, that aside, there have been numerous times on the forum when I've been surprised at the lack of positive feedback for the police when they do finally start listening to us (cyclists) or rather policy has changed.
For example, Brick Lane has been known as a place to shift stolen bikes for years and for years cyclists and people on this forum have been saying 'why don't the police do something about it'. Bicycle theft generally in London hasn't really been taken seriously. Until recently. On the Stolen Bikes thread Oliver posted links to the new police initiative to properly crack down on bike theft. I was impressed to see something finally being done:
http://www.lfgss.com/thread123-82.html
The link is at the top of the page. But when you read down the page we still see negative comments about the police; now they are doing something. And nothing positive. Comments like this:
"If the Brick lane market is so well know as an outlet for stolen bikes etc why dont the police do something? I realise they are to busy being PC and to scared that they may step on a few toes but surely if there is no paper trail to the bike on sale they get confiscated.
Seems that the police are there as window dressing where every you go."
And this:
"the thing is...We now have a 30 strong police task for assigned to tackling bike theft in the city...last week was there first week, they hung around the bagel shop and kisses a few babys heads...(interpret that how you will if it's rudeand mean though doesn't insinuate child abuse then all well and good)...."
Oliver then goes on to post a link to more good news about cracking down on bike theft:
An article that finishes off by saying that where they had been getting five bikes reported stolen every day in that area, after the arrests not one was reported stolen for over two weeks. So, it certainly looks to me as if the police's actions have sent out a message to bike thieves. But the thing is after Oliver posted this and he said 'Anyway, just a small bit of good news in all the gloom' nobody commented on what the police had achieved, not one person.
It certainly seems that the police are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
I hope that this new initiative against bike theft is really successful, sends out the message to thieves that bike theft is now being taken seriously and consequently reduces it further. And don't forget that from reading the Stolen Bikes thread the bikes that are getting stolen are often completely inadequately locked in the first place. How frustrating must this be for the cops? As long as we continue to lock a grands worth of Hetchins with a waxed shoelace we're continuing to make bike theft an easy option.
-
Originally Posted by Pistolero
*I have to test both Police and my patience soon. *They have cordoned off Bishopsgate, Wormwood St, Bevis Marks and prob more. Looks like an issue with the new Heron tower.
Problem is, my bike is locked up in the cordon zone. I have been here at work for 12 hours and I wanna go home :-(
Did you find out what this was for?
It was a fire on some scaffolding. Seemed a huge reaction for a fire, so must have been more to it.
Luckily I could see my bike from outside the cordon. I asked a Cycle Sheriff politely if I could retrieve my ticket home. He wouldn't let me in, but he took my keys and fetched my bike for me. So happy to report a nice police action.
Had a tailwind all the way home as well....nice.
-
In my opinion people should stop complaining about the police.
Why? If they do a shit job why should we keep quiet about it?
I don't think they always do the right thing, but can we expect perfection from everybody?
Perfection? Of course not. But high standars? Certainly. And a lack of perfection can be made up by a willingness to accept fault, learn from mistakes and not fall into repeat failings - something the police (based on anecdotal evidence) seem unwilling or very slow to do.
I see many other professionals who do a crap job and never get bitched about and I can't claim to have never been negligent in my own work.
Firstly, I think you'll find that whenever public service is involved doing a crap job will result in bitching. Secondly, a crap job by the police, much more so than most other jobs, undermines the basis upon which are civil liberties and freedoms are upheld. You may be crap at your job (whatever it is you do) but I really doubt that it affects me either directly or indirectly. A crap job by the police, whose duty is to uphold and protect our civil rights, affects me indirectly and possibly directly.
Maybe we should do "job swap" and see how easy it is to do
Or maybe we should do an international police exchange and have police from russia for a week, maybe that would open some eyes.The fact that other countries have a shittier police force than us is not an excuse for poor performance of our own police force. Especially not given the amount of public funding that goes to the police and that we live in a country that claims to be ahead of many others in terms of democracy and protection of the rights and freedoms of its people.
Also, this is a poor, poor argument by the way. There will always be someone or some place worse off than you - does that mean you should not complain? Think about that next time you have a shit and run out of toilet paper. You would probably not like someone to tell you to stop complaining and that you should try living in a country where they don't even have toilets let alone TP and see how you like that.
-
Any excuse,
-
what is wrong with mistrusting them even when they are assisting you? just because they are there it doesn't mean they are actually doing anything that will be beneficial (i.e., will they actually be chasing your bike theft up, getting witnesses, filling out all the right documents that are necessary for something to actually happen)
as for the second point, please, blow it out your ass until you have some actual
facts...I tried blowing my point outta my ass but it didn't work. Apologies...
-
there have been numerous times on the forum when I've been surprised at the lack of positive feedback for the police when they do finally start listening to us (cyclists) or rather policy has changed.
Years of nakedly, aggressively pursued racism is unlikely to see the police being praised when they finally decide not to be cunts. Resentment takes a while to subside after such a prolonged and successful campaign by the police, perhaps it might never entirely go having become a fixed part of how we view the police.
So when a new policy decides to deal with an issue people think has been ignored it takes a while for the actual successful implementation of the policy (rather than merely it's announcement) to filter down and start to change people's opinions.
For example, Brick Lane has been known as a place to shift stolen bikes for years and for years cyclists and people on this forum have been saying 'why don't the police do something about it'. Bicycle theft generally in London hasn't really been taken seriously. Until recently. On the Stolen Bikes thread Oliver posted links to the new police initiative to properly crack down on bike theft. I was impressed to see something finally being done:
http://www.lfgss.com/thread123-82.html
The link is at the top of the page. But when you read down the page we *still* see negative comments about the police; now they are doing something. And nothing positive. Comments like this:
The operative word here is 'still' I think. People at this stage have still only got bad stories, stories of stolen bikes, police disinterest and so on. Like I say, don't expect opinions to change overnight after years of police disinterest.
But the thing is after Oliver posted this and he said 'Anyway, just a small bit of good news in all the gloom' nobody commented on what the police had achieved, not one person.
I can only make the same point really, people feel they have the right to not have their bikes stolen, if and when they are, they expect the police to take their case seriously - just because, after decades of disinterest, the police decide to take bike theft seriously does not particularly put them in a good light, it's a tacit admission to their past failure.
Like I say the day they crack racism in the force I won't be sending them a congratulatory card, my thoughts are likely to be like everyone else's ("about time too, you bunch of fucking cunts").
It certainly seems that the police are damned if they do and damned if they don't.
Not at all, it just all takes time.
As long as we continue to lock a grands worth of Hetchins with a waxed shoelace we're continuing to make bike theft an easy option.
What has also massively contributed to bike theft is the knowledge that if you steal a grand's worth of bike, the police are unlikely to put much effort into investigating, if any at all.
-
It was a fire on some scaffolding. Seemed a huge reaction for a fire, so must have been more to it.
Luckily I could see my bike from outside the cordon. I asked a Cycle Sheriff politely if I could retrieve my ticket home. He wouldn't let me in, but he took my keys and fetched my bike for me. So happy to report a nice police action.
Had a tailwind all the way home as well....nice.
"Police responsible for tail wind" shocker!
-
Years of nakedly, aggressively pursued racism is unlikely to see the police being praised when they finally decide not to be cunts. Resentment takes a while to subside after such a prolonged and successful campaign by the police, perhaps it might never entirely go having become a fixed part of how we view the police.
So when a new policy decides to deal with an issue people think has been ignored it takes a while for the actual successful implementation of the policy (rather than merely it's announcement) to filter down and start to change people's opinions.
The operative word here is 'still' I think. People at this stage have still only got bad stories, stories of stolen bikes, police disinterest and so on. Like I say, don't expect opinions to change overnight after years of police disinterest.
I can only make the same point really, people feel they have the right to not have their bikes stolen, if and when they are, they expect the police to take their case seriously - just because, after decades of disinterest, the police decide to take bike theft seriously does not particularly put them in a good light, it's a tacit admission to their past failure.
Like I say the day they crack racism in the force I won't be sending them a congratulatory card, my thoughts are likely to be like everyone else's ("about time too, you bunch of fucking cunts").
Not at all, it just all takes time.
What has also massively contributed to bike theft is the knowledge that if you steal a grand's worth of bike, the police are unlikely to put much effort into investigating, if any at all.
Racism in the force is an issue. Although I believe this will also change, gradually, as demographics and more open attitudes of new generations (hopefully) continue to shift. Not just within the police but also within society. I'm an optimist like that.
Ultimately your point about it taking time to shift perceptions with regard to this new crack down on bike theft is a perfectly valid one. However, I for one am very happy to see them finally doing something constructive and already having some fairly significant success. I hope this continues.
And if it does I hope it also goes some way to improving relations generally between the police and the cycling community. Because this can only be a good thing.
-
OP, here's why.
-
Not going to read back through these pages but I thought I'd impose my tuppence worth, as far as I can see it people have no problem with the majority of individual police members, it's their group mentality that people hate, their air of holier than thou bullshit...
About a month ago I was stopped because the tax was out on my car, it wasn't payed because we're in a bloody recession and there was no money available to me to pay it despite my business being owed over €250,000 by bastards who refuse to pay us or make any effort to pay us for work carried out... The sanctimonious little bastard cop who pulled me over told me that "Money is tight for all of us but I manage to pay my car tax"... Disgusting little public servant prick whose wage hasn't dropped one cent in the last few years telling ME times are tough... Dickhead then confiscated my car knowing it would prevent me from working the next day... It's this bullshit that makes people hate them...
Equal to that there are loads of wonderful people who are cops who've helped me out with lots of things over the years...
deleted
tynan
EEI
mmccarthy
chris_crash
nickyspaghetti
biarittz
izgard
goodhead
Trebor
hippy
andy.w
Nahguavkire
nyquil-
Post a reply
About
Why are people so down on the police?
Posted by
@VanUden
Did you find out what this was for?