Saw an accident this morning

morning all

i've seen an accident this morning in front of cutty sark 8.20am, the sorta classic overtake and turn. nasty cinema-like stuff, bike flew over to the other side of the car, rider on the floor banging on the car side to make her stop, and the driver still took 2 seconds to come to a full stop. i was quite sure the driver was trying to flee the scene, but aparently she hadnt realised at all of the happening -- which is quite shocking.

to tell you the truth, the cyclist was fairly fast (about 30kmh), but the driver seems to have neglected looking into the side mirror at all. there was this long line of cyclist, with a reckless driver like that it could've been any of us.

i was going to stick around, but there was already enough people and the rider seemed fine -- even asked the driver to 'please' call an ambulance and 'just' a broken arm... if it was me i would have been shouting and kicking. i'm quite sure i could see the bone popping out thou, but my presence wouldnt benefit them in any way. i could only swear at the driver, so i left.

it's horrible that we have to go thru those situations, and i've been trying to be more careful too. i mean, since i'm an accidented american tool who will get smoked (see http://www.lfgss.com/thread33652.html) i've been trying to be more chilled, cos i definitely dont want to be there myself.

are you trying to be safer too? and look out for those drivers.

My morning ride takes me 100yds away from there exactly that time. In fact sometimes for a change, I do go down that road. Although I'm "working" from home today, so I missed it.

How did the accident happen? Driver took the road between the Mexican bar and the noodle place that heads down to Deptford and the cyclist was carrying on around the square, heading for East Greenwich/Woolwich?

There was an accident in the Euston underpass this morning too. Scooter guy sitting down being attended by ambo and a stopped car as well as a cyclist.

there's a little road on the left as you go from greenwich market to deptford, right opposite to subway. car was turning into there and rider got boxed in. i'm quite sure the car didnt 'overtake' the bike, but was rather slowly and turned. rider was too fast and possibly didnt acknowledged that a slow car might meant a turning car with a reckless driver that dont bother turning the indicator on (although that one had it, but i reckon people like hitting the stick as they turn the driving wheel).

bike flew from the entrance of the road and hit the brick wall on the other side. i reckon a broken arm was actually luck, and not flying over the car might have helped too. still, pretty fucked up.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=grenwich+market&ie=UTF8&sll=51.480882,-0.01074&sspn=0.002412,0.006802&split=1&rq=1&ev=zi&radius=0.15&hq=grenwich+market&hnear=&ll=51.481416,-0.010917&spn=0,0.006802&z=18&layer=c&cbll=51.481415,-0.010724&panoid=lu91WOO-Eio6nI2uR8sTQA&cbp=12,243.04,,0,7.77

the point is, it sort of could have been avoided if the rider was more aware and a bit slower -- i've kept my eyes open as i've seen similar shit being pulled in front of me before, but i still have to slow down lots if i want to be safer on the road.

Was the cyclist speeding? No. So it's the driver's fault.

Was the cyclist speeding? No. So it's the driver's fault.

Devils advocate in me say the rider should take some responsibility (liability) for not being in the optimum road position. The op does mention (i read as) the car was in slow moving traffic,

Fuck. I ride through there all the time and I've never noticed that tiny road. It's always the upcoming junction with Haddo road, with the cement works (=lots of cement trucks) that I'm looking out for.

I'll be dropping down the bike shop in Deptford later, so I'll be riding that bit of road in a couple of hours.

Irrespective of fault I think it is reasonable to make the point that the slower you cycle, and the more prepared you are to give way to a car despite having the right of way, the less likely you are to crash.

Yes, but the same applies to cars. That's why there's speed limits.

Devils advocate in me say the rider should take some responsibility (liability) for not being in the optimum road position. The op does mention (i read as) the car was in slow moving traffic,

He was riding legally? No?

The driver is at fault.

Doesn't seem like a devil's advocate position, just kind of sensible. Cyclist undertaking at speed where there's a road entrance on the left and the potential for cars to take that last minute left turn.......... risky, obviously.

Fuck. I ride through there all the time and I've never noticed that tiny road. It's always the upcoming junction with Haddo road, with the cement works (=lots of cement trucks) that I'm looking out for.

I'll be dropping down the bike shop in Deptford later, so I'll be riding that bit of road in a couple of hours.

yeah, i'm always on the lookout for trucks there. i had to 'dispute who will go first' with a car when the lights turned green in a morning, so i've been extra careful specially there.

If a car infront (the description in the first post differs from post #4) of you and slows if you proceed to over / undertake the car you need to make sure the car is not turning, especially if there appears to be nothing in front of it causing it to slow down, it's basic road sense.

Doesn't seem like a devil's advocate position, just kind of sensible. Cyclist undertaking at speed where there's a road entrance on the left and the potential for cars to take that last minute left turn.......... risky, obviously.

risky, but still doesnt justify a car turning suddenly without reason. especially when/if they go slowly, they surely have the time to look into rear mirrors.

what happens is a total careless from some drivers.

i'm not saying the rider isnt a bit guilty in that situation, but you definitely will suffer the most in an accident, regardless.

When you're lying in the road with you're head cracked open like a goddam walnut, your gonna be less concerned about fault, careless drivers and justification than wishing it hadn't happened at all. Racing up the inside without sufficient time to stop is moody behaviour.

If a car infront (the description in the first post differs from post #4) of you and slows if you proceed to over / undertake the car you need to make sure the car is not turning, especially if there appears to be nothing in front of it causing it to slow down, it's basic road sense.

well, sorry about that.. i was more paying attention to things around me :P
but i agree with you -- it's road sense. although i'm quite sure the car was slow and simply turned -- we were all going past them -- hence, driver's fault 75%, rider 25%.

road cents

When you're lying in the road with you're head cracked open like a goddam walnut, your gonna be less concerned about fault, careless drivers and justification than wishing it hadn't happened at all. Racing up the inside without sufficient time to stop is moody behaviour.

+1
From bitter/painful experience, couldn't agree more. Yes the driver was in the wrong, but a greater awareness of self preservation/defensive riding can avoid a lot of accidents.

was not trying to have a go at you Joe, reply was aimed at Hippy

it's alright, no worries tommy.

it's all odd cos i feel like it was me in the trouble. i mean, i'm very likely to have an accident like that as i'm always speeding more than necessary, but at least i'm trying to chill and i definitely have a more defensive behaviour since i last crashed.

btw, i now scream 'oi' at distracted crossing pedestrians. i do it so loud that i can feel my chest vibrating. most times it sounds like an angry pitbull bark, but it works just fine.

the other day, the same situation, ped crossing with a big red light in her face. i had to shout 3 times at this girl in central london..but when she 'heard' it, she was so scared she probably pissed her pants. she was jumping and screaming scared as i went by. made me even sad a bit after, she could have had a heart attack or something. but like, crossing a fucking avenue reading a mag isnt what i reckon as 'look both sides before crossing' as my mom told me.

Although it is legal to undertake slower moving/staionery traffic you have to apply some element of common sense if undertaking at 20mph!
Yes it is the cars fault if they turn left without looking/indicating but you should ride with the expectation that they will do it anyway.

btw, i now scream 'oi' at distracted crossing pedestrians. i do it so loud that i can feel my chest vibrating. most times it sounds like an angry pitbull bark, but it works just fine.

I always shout "heads" very loudly.

for me it's the only shout that seems to work as it gets people looking up and stopping as they feel that something might be endangering them. Oi could refer to anyone so can be easily ignored.

If a car infront (the description in the first post differs from post #4) of you and slows if you proceed to over / undertake the car you need to make sure the car is not turning, especially if there appears to be nothing in front of it causing it to slow down, it's basic road sense.

Didn't see #4. Bit stupid of the rider then. Still have to question whether there was sufficient indicator use.

Devils advocate in ame say the rider should take some responsibility (liability) for not being in the optimum road position. The op does mention (i read as) the car was in slow moving traffic,

He was riding legally? No?

The driver is at fault.

The cyclist still has the broken arm.