Alexander McQueen - London boy RIP

Seems reasonable to ask why, given the stature of some of the people in the RIP thread, Alexander McQueen deserves a separate one all of his own? Not to doubt the sincerity of the people who have posted at all or to doubt that McQueen had talent, albeit in a milieu of greed, excess and exploitation but he was surely not so significant a figure as to warrant this.

Since when are threads supposed to be awarded on particular merit? I wouldn't have started a separate thread on this, but the OP clearly felt that way, and while I'm sure we all know about threads on the forum that we don't like or that we think are pointless, we'll just have to allow some leeway (NO pun intended!) on this.

I don't know anything about fashion and certainly never paid any attention to Mr McQueen. Neither do I have any idea in what way he was culturally significant and wouldn't be able to tell any of his work from stuff in the charity shops, but I have heroes who aren't so popular as to have achieved the kind of universal recognition that might make a separate thread, or several, inevitable. Unfortunately, celebrities' deaths will of course always attract so much more attention than those of less popular people that it may seem unjust and can be upsetting. I rather like the Guardian's 'Other Lives' column for that reason.

I still think it's a sad story about which more might come out, and besides the expressions of sympathy no doubt a lot of muck-raking, too, which I'm not looking forward to. Besides the evident and slightly trivial, but often forgotten, fact that money and fame don't make people happy, there's always that he doesn't seem to have had anyone left to turn to--I'll never forget the expression on an African friend's face when he was reading the newspaper and could quite genuinely not comprehend that someone young, I forget who it was, had committed suicide. No doubt this situation in his part of Africa will have changed quite considerably in the intervening years, but to him at the time it was just inconceivable that the people around that person couldn't have prevented the suicide. He might have been rather naïve in this, but he was sincerely shocked.

What is wrong with that?....When my grandfather spoke i listened as he was wiser than me and what he said was worth listening to....or are just using grand dad as an insult....are you indulging in a bit of ageism perhaps/ If so shame on you!

Not really as I only had one Grand Parent that survived the concentration camps in Siberia as the Communists murdered half of my family in 1939 the one Grand Parent that survived looked after all the children that were left through Russia, Persia, Africa and Pakistan before they arrived in England and my Mother signed up to the WRAF in Dunholme Lodge.

too......many......full......stops......

yes.....most......probably.....but c'est la vie.

eg Leon Trotsky

/attachments/21258

Actually almost all of them (original marxists) were secular Jews. It was an ultimate form of rebellion for a hipster young Ashkenazi Jew a hundred or so years ago. It's like becoming Muslim for a West Indian youths or piercing your top lip so you can pose for pictures for your Bebo page while throwing some random gang signs for the Essex girls..

He might have been rather naïve in this, but he was sincerely shocked.

He might be lacking in access to information as the suicide rate is quiet high in certain African nations.

who's gonna win this internet debate?

stay tuned.

Not really as I only had one Grand Parent that survived the concentration camps in Siberia as the Communists murdered half of my family in 1939 the one Grand Parent that survived looked after all the children that were left through Russia, Persia, Africa and Pakistan before they arrived in England and my Mother signed up to the WRAF in Dunholme Lodge.
,

Then you should know better than to use grand dad as an insult.....especially as he seems a good chap.

Can i ask out of interest [and i will understand if you don't]....when you say we.....where did your parents come from....Baltic states?....I am not a stalinist...marxist yes

Actually almost all of them (original marxists) were secular Jews. It was an ultimate form of rebellion for a hipster young Ashkenazi Jew a hundred or so years ago. It's like becoming Muslim for a West Indian youths or piercing your top lip so you can pose for pictures for your Bebo page while throwing some random gang signs for the Essex girls..

I never grew up in Poland but can you explain the hatred towards the Jews pre 1939?

He might be lacking in access to information as the suicide rate is quiet high in certain African nations.

I've just worked out that it was twelve years ago. I have no idea if it's changed much since then, though. Africa experts would know.

Marxist Fixie, I'm assuming that the thread you started about London Grrl was a thinly veiled pastiche of this thread? Quite amusing, but I agree with Oliver, can we really start drawing lines about how worthy someone is before they have earned the right to command a thread title?

through Russia, Persia, Africa and Pakistan before they arrived in England.

Who was driving - London cabbie?

Actually almost all of them (original marxists) were secular Jews. It was an ultimate form of rebellion for a hipster young Ashkenazi Jew a hundred or so years ago. It's like becoming Muslim for a West Indian youths or piercing your top lip so you can pose for pictures for your Bebo page while throwing some random gang signs for the Essex girls..

Marxism offered salvation from pogroms but the like Bronstein/Trotsky's family were a bit different...as the were farmers away from the Jewish communities in the Pale of Russia.

Since when are threads supposed to be awarded on particular merit?

Every day there is 'discussion' about the merit of starting threads, every single day and it is often these discussions that are the most personal and abusive; as you well know from the last couple of days alone.
The point I was making was, I think, about realising that just because someone is a particular 'hero' of your's it doesn't mean they merit their own thread when there is an already existing RIP thread. I guess it's about perspective.

No, those are full stops. This is an ellipsis…

Given there are six dots after each of the words in your previous post, you could say that there were two ellipses after each word...

oh my god, I have become Ollie

Who was driving - London cabbie?

I used to be a London Cabbie....only cocked up big time once.

During the Miners' Strike got into a discussion with a toff...who said 'cabbie if you don't stop talking bolshie talk....i won't give you a tip!'.....I told him that as a socialist...a tip would be offensive...just pay what was on the clock.....shut him up a treat!

I think you have a problem with exressing yourself...which I have seen in many under performing students over the years.....with aweak vocabulary....but if calling me a vagina makes you feel better so be it......but to use your language.....intellectual fail!

PS my life is fine...and after reading your pathetic reposte.....feeling better.....The jack Jones of this world are decent......you are.....nothing!...or even less than that......a post modern waste of space......no beliefs...no values

Ed?

,

Then you should know better than to use grand dad as an insult.....especially as he seems a good chap.

Can i ask out of interest [and i will understand if you don't]....when you say we.....where did your parents come from....Baltic states?....I am not a stalinist...marxist yes

Poland, Mother from Lwow which was Poland in 1939 but is now in the Ukraine. Had the usual knock on the door at midnight told two hours to pack and was shipped out to Siberia. Stalinists, Nazi's Russian's I hate them all. Mother was eventually in the WRAF, Father Merchant Navy (invasion of Italy and Africa, Atlantic Convoys), Uncle flew Lancansters on bombing runs over Germany and another family member fought at Monte Casino.

I don't know anything about fashion

Oh, come on Oliver, false modesty doesn't suit you.

Ed?

Cheap shot...

Every day there is 'discussion' about the merit of starting threads, every single day and it is often these discussions that are the most personal and abusive; as you well know from the last couple of days alone.
The point I was making was, I think, was about realising that just because someone is a particular 'hero' of your's it doesn't mean they merit their own thread when there is an already existing RIP thread. I guess it's about perspective.

How about a waterfall is deep in the jungle where no one lives...but does it make any noise thread?

Oh, come on Oliver, false modesty doesn't suit you.

He has a pony tail........

I think it's a great tribute to this forum that a discussion that started out with the death of a - no doubt personally decent - man who pandered to the rich and famous and parasitic has ended up as a debate about the origins of anarchism and socialism.

Cheap shot...

/desperately searches for pun about marxism.

I think McQueen was a fantastic designer, all his collections are wearable in my opinion, infinitely more so than many other contemporary designers. It was him that got me into fashion, and i find his story inspirational.
Not everyone has a tyrant to fight, or a cause to die for. At least he did something that enriched other peoples lives, and you cannot deny that he did indeed enrich other peoples lives. Art is as valuable as democracy, they are very closely linked.

I never grew up in Poland but can you explain the hatred towards the Jews pre 1939?

1. Jelousy - directed against corporate emporiums run by Jews (in. like textile manufacturers in Lodz for example)
   
2. Association - under the Sanacja right wing regime, some associated Jews with Bolshevicks, especially during the 1920 campaing
   
3. Catholic propaganda - an obvious one, about Jews being greedy while lending money (the only trade the were allowed to take on through the centuries and after being encouraged by Holy Roman Emperor to do so - they were not allowed to own farms or become part of craft guilds)
   
4. Right wing politicians needed a scapegoat during the global financial crisis, especially in countries which were based on agriculture and very little of industry - with huge poverty - Jews=Bolsheviks=revolution=going under the management of Soviet Union.