Action Group Meeting - cycling deaths caused by lorries

Well, I could give you lots of examples where campaigning has produced relatively fast action from government. But yeah given the timescale being discussed I can see what you mean.

But that's an awful lot of riders to educate in very little time. If you can influence people with money/power/resources you could do that a lot faster.

I think we need Joanna Lumley!

and it's worked so far when.. um.. by .. um...

Policy change will not educate riders and takes time. agreed there is a longer term aims that require strong cases and influence to push them. but there is good will and effort available here that can be harnessed and used to immediate effect.

Larger Campaigns take a more measured approach and require time/effort and resolve - i.e individuals\groups for long periods of time

1. K-tee - construction industry and policy
   
2. Ufrasia - Media, Lobbying.
   
3. Greasy - Admin for Ghostbike.uk and CycleSafeLondon
   
4. Skully - AV post production
   
5. Pistanator
   
6. Libi - Media
   
7. CrazyJames - Photography, with contacts in web design/graphic design/branding etc available if needed.
   
8. Multigrooves - Cycletrainer
   
9. Damo
   
10. Georgieboy
    
11. Twist305 (apologies) - Citizens Advice Bureau head office
    12.Digger-Cycle Instructor (apologies)
    
12. Velocio (apologies) LFGSS, CycleSafeLondon
    
13. Wicksie - graphic design, printing, anything to help, make the tea if need be.
    
14. tomiskinky - Graphic Designer
    
15. Chang - Graphic/motion/web/digital design i've got alot of mates that work in marketing/PR could get some media coverage.
    
16. CheBeef - Work at Law Firm (litigation)
    
17. havingamare - photographer
    
18. loftypavement - student
    
19. williamshatnerpants
    
20. Aroogah - IT Services Exec - commercial, strategic, legal
    
21. CHUG_IT (won't be there but..) Barristers of the highest level
    
22. LdnGrrl. - Lots of free time, will help in any way needed
    24.nuknow - Graphic Design
    25.Fox - (can't do Tues, could do Wed) marketing/campaigning/PR/lobbying experience
    
23. ftony (apol for mtg + not much free time but...) geographer (access to maps, journals, skilled in spatial analysis etc)
    
24. villa-ru - currently unemployed with plenty of free time and prior experience of herding cats
    
25. G_A_Z - Film Editor
    
    

i'll come if needs be, wont if i'll just be getting in the way. if i can help let me know!!!

I've got a secret though. I don't have a singlespeed.

1. K-tee - construction industry and policy
   
2. Ufrasia - Media, Lobbying.
   
3. Greasy - Admin for Ghostbike.uk and CycleSafeLondon
   
4. Skully - AV post production
   
5. Pistanator
   
6. Libi - Media
   
7. CrazyJames - Photography, with contacts in web design/graphic design/branding etc available if needed.
   
8. Multigrooves - Cycletrainer
   
9. Damo
   
10. Georgieboy
    
11. Twist305 (apologies) - Citizens Advice Bureau head office
    12.Digger-Cycle Instructor (apologies)
    
12. Velocio (apologies) LFGSS, CycleSafeLondon
    
13. Wicksie - graphic design, printing, anything to help, make the tea if need be.
    
14. tomiskinky - Graphic Designer
    
15. Chang - Graphic/motion/web/digital design i've got alot of mates that work in marketing/PR could get some media coverage.
    
16. CheBeef - Work at Law Firm (litigation)
    
17. havingamare - photographer
    
18. loftypavement - student
    
19. williamshatnerpants
    
20. Aroogah - IT Services Exec - commercial, strategic, legal
    
21. CHUG_IT (won't be there but..) Barristers of the highest level
    
22. LdnGrrl. - Lots of free time, will help in any way needed
    24.nuknow - Graphic Design
    25.Fox - (can't do Tues, could do Wed) marketing/campaigning/PR/lobbying experience
    
23. ftony (apol for mtg + not much free time but...) geographer (access to maps, journals, skilled in spatial analysis etc)
    
24. villa-ru - currently unemployed with plenty of free time and prior experience of herding cats
    
25. G_A_Z - Film Editor
    
26. Ade - Exhibition / Event/ set design and build (access to AV/lighting/sound equipment if required )
    

I wont be able to attend unfortunately. But I would like to suggest an agenda item. Seperate bike lanes.

I've used them in Sweden and Germany and have heard they now have them in New York. They are great for slow or especially vulnerable cyclists (like children). For some reason the idea is not popular here and is usually dismissed.

no, seperate bike lanes = more aggression with motorised vehicle if you want to ride on the road instead of the bike lane nearby (I got more drivers shouted at me when I didn't take the terrible Bloomsbury cycle lane), drivers are less likely to expect a cyclists on the same road if there's a cycle lane nearby and consquencely don't look out for cyclists, cyclists also under the illusion that cycle lane is safe and therefore doesn't need to ride with caution like they do on the road, etc.

a cycle superhighway can work in my opinion (proper one, not a superfical one), but everyday street, no.

From Kate (Ktee):

This smacks me in the heart again, and again and again. Why is this happening?!? Why is the 'action' not working? There is no urgency, no importance, no priority, and no resources.

Thing is, we don't know if all the campaign actually working, while we have a terrible loss of 7 females who got crushed by HGV this years (and I cannot stress how unacceptable that loss is) the fatalities might've been twice that had the campaign never exist.

having says that, it doesn't mean we shouldn't carry on, keep it up, the more we advised people not to undertake truck, the more chance that there'll be less incident.

I don't have any relevant skills/contacts so I won't waste time and space by going to the meeting. I hope it goes well. These deaths are unnacceptable.

I cycled past the Whitechapel Road tragedy yesterday morning and like everyone else here feel sick and saddened. I'd like to offer my help and skills in any way that I can as our thinking takes shape.

I work in advertising and media as a strategist - I've worked with the government (DoH, COI and the DfT ) before and can rally two-wheeled troops from inside the media engine.

Let me know if you'd like me to come - sure I can rustle up biscuits too.

Well, I could give you lots of examples where campaigning has produced relatively fast action from government. But yeah given the timescale being discussed I can see what you mean.

But that's an awful lot of riders to educate in very little time. If you can influence people with money/power/resources you could do that a lot faster.

I think we need Joanna Lumley!

That would do it. the power of the celebrity

i'd like to go through those examples on tuesday (before or after the meeting) be interesting to see how they worked

don't know if Bill is involved already...he should be.....

Actually, 'celebrity' is a good route as the media and politicians seem to take more notice.

List of London 'celebrity' cyclists that may be a voice for us?

I was about to suggest a popular fat chef that we all know but this is defintely not the time nor place.

Kelly brook?

Boris (!)
Cameron (!)
Alan Sugar

As much a twit Boris is, having him on board can make some difference, remember the time when the truck's door fling open and dragged a couple of cars with it?

There's space available here at Bikefix tonight if you want.

STuart

Will Self

Politician wise I know Emily Thornberry (Islington South) is a cyclist (was chair of the all party parliamentary cycling group 2005-8)and quite a lot of these incidents have happened in her constituency. Might be worth contacting that group too.

Just been looking at the FTA website. They are campaigning against the night and weekend lorry restrictions. I'm not sure if the aim is to ban lorries at all times in London, or just during rush hour, but this may be a case where what appears to be the enemy may also be an ally. In any case, the website has some resources which may be useful, such as information about red routes, etc. http://www.fta.co.uk/information/london/lorry-control-scheme/

It may be too late to get this organized, but I'd have thought something- even if just placards at the Skyride, or even the Tour, would be a good start.

R

I don't have any relevant skills/contacts so I won't waste time and space by going to the meeting. I hope it goes well. These deaths are unnacceptable.

+1

Maybe have a locked topic Sticky and keep us all abreast of what is going on/minutes/decisions etc?

Just been looking at the FTA website. They are campaigning against the night and weekend lorry restrictions. I'm not sure if the aim is to ban lorries at all times in London, or just during rush hour, but this may be a case where what appears to be the enemy may also be an ally. In any case, the website has some resources which may be useful, such as information about red routes, etc. http://www.fta.co.uk/information/london/lorry-control-scheme/

the campaign would work if people reduced their consumption, netherless I somewhat doubt it'd work, that'd mean more lorry in the daytime, creating more traffic, and perhaps increase the likeihood of an incident with a cyclists.

unless people stop buying thing they don't need, this won't change.

This has got to stop

Somebody needs to do an assesment of what has already been done for cyclists safety, and what is in the pipeline at the moment.

at every bus stop there are posters telling you to "get on your bike"
gas that if it isnt safe.

what is the current cycling budget spent on? greenways?

evidently what you are asking is a massive re-education of drivers in london...massive task
what can be do to kick things off, small things, to make drivers aware of what they could accidently do to someone on the road.

we need a HGV drivers, or just general motorist campaign.

all i'v ever seen is a tiny sign outside the IMAX saying "think bike"

wtf is that when it's at home!

I'm a safety engineer btw so deal in risk assesment and very high risk safety situations (specifically oil & gas)

if anyone can give me a list of the locations of the fatalities I can check a few online databases as to whether TfL have any plans for the junctions if they were on red routes, or if the boroughs have any plans if they happened on borough roads. TfL are know for being really slow when it comes to delivering cycle schemes on red routes so pressure from that side might help...?

That's exactly the kind of lobbying from organisations with money behind their public affairs activity we are effectively going to be fighting. This is why I think it's really important to have some lobbying/campaigning types on board.

Just been looking at the FTA website. They are campaigning against the night and weekend lorry restrictions. I'm not sure if the aim is to ban lorries at all times in London, or just during rush hour, but this may be a case where what appears to be the enemy may also be an ally. In any case, the website has some resources which may be useful, such as information about red routes, etc. http://www.fta.co.uk/information/london/lorry-control-scheme/

It may be too late to get this organized, but I'd have thought something- even if just placards at the Skyride, or even the Tour, would be a good start.

R

1. K-tee - construction industry and policy
   
2. Ufrasia - Media, Lobbying.
   
3. Greasy - Admin for Ghostbike.uk and CycleSafeLondon
   
4. Skully - AV post production
   
5. Pistanator
   
6. Libi - Media
   
7. CrazyJames - Photography, with contacts in web design/graphic design/branding etc available if needed.
   
8. Multigrooves - Cycletrainer
   
9. Damo
   
10. Georgieboy
    
11. Twist305 (apologies) - Citizens Advice Bureau head office
    12.Digger-Cycle Instructor (apologies)
    
12. Velocio (apologies) LFGSS, CycleSafeLondon
    
13. Wicksie - graphic design, printing, anything to help, make the tea if need be.
    
14. tomiskinky - Graphic Designer
    
15. Chang - Graphic/motion/web/digital design i've got alot of mates that work in marketing/PR could get some media coverage.
    
16. CheBeef - Work at Law Firm (litigation)
    
17. havingamare - photographer
    
18. loftypavement - student
    
19. williamshatnerpants
    
20. Aroogah - IT Services Exec - commercial, strategic, legal
    
21. CHUG_IT (won't be there but..) Barristers of the highest level
    
22. LdnGrrl. - Lots of free time, will help in any way needed
    24.nuknow - Graphic Design
    25.Fox - (can't do Tues, could do Wed) marketing/campaigning/PR/lobbying experience
    
23. ftony (apol for mtg + not much free time but...) geographer (access to maps, journals, skilled in spatial analysis etc)
    
24. villa-ru - currently unemployed with plenty of free time and prior experience of herding cats
    
25. G_A_Z - Film Editor
    
26. Ade - Exhibition / Event/ set design and build (access to AV/lighting/sound equipment if required )
    
27. chatters
    

if anyone can give me a list of the locations of the fatalities I can check a few online databases as to whether TfL have any plans for the junctions if they were on red routes, or if the boroughs have any plans if they happened on borough roads. TfL are know for being really slow when it comes to delivering cycle schemes on red routes so pressure from that side might help...?

I somewhat doubt that would make any difference as cyclists sometime unbeknowning to them of the danger, still undertake HGV/or have no idea about the amount of blind spot that HGV have.

Do people not think this needs to be a bit more democratic and grass roots though to have credibility? Just a bit worried it could be perceived as the mastermind of a small group of people, then where's your credibility?

+1

Maybe have a locked topic Sticky and keep us all abreast of what is going on/minutes/decisions etc?