Recommend a protein supplement?

and the amateurs as well, its a good product if you struggle to put weight on or eat enough food. But I prefer a lighter protein drink, AST VP2 whey isolate is good, because its really light, easy to digest, and doesn't mess with your stomach like some of the cheap nasty whey proteins do.

Pistaboy:

I would just like to comment on something that i'm sure you are all aware of, but is often overlooked.... Its amazing how much leg strength improves when your core muscles are functioning at their optimal - and in balance with each other.
Right idea but wrong explanation, improving core strength does not by default improve leg strength, it can however improve your overall strength in exercises such as the squat or deadlift if your core is the weak link lagging behind preventing you from busting through a plateau, and obviously good core strength has numerous other benefits.

All these squats, deadlifts, cleans, etc etc, can be massively improved when the core muscles get some of their own training.
True, although not essential when you are pushing the limits on these big lifts as very often you tend to develop a strong core just from doing these exercises properly, however additional "core" training can be beneficial, it depends on the person.

Sooooo many people fail to understand that the the core muscles are not just the abs and back extensors. The core is all of the muscles that have any contact with the pelvis and spine, and any muscles that function as stabilisers for these areas. We're talking lats, glutes, hip flexors, rotator muscles etc.
Right initially, but the lats are not related to core muscles as they do nothing unsupported to stabilize the core area, and what the hell is a rotator muscle? if you're talking about the rotator cuffs then they in the shoulder area, quite far away from your "core"........

When these are at their strongest, other training becomes more functional, and more effective. There's no point "upping" your squat weight if you are using a fucking pointless weight belt, and the same goes for straps etc.... if you can't grip a weight - and you need straps to lift it - your body is not ready to do so, and you gain nothing from it.
**I hate straps, most pointless thing ever invented if you can't deadlift the weight wrapping some straps around the bar so you can get better grip and cheat is bullshit, knee wraps can actually be very dangerous for squats as well, i've seen knee wraps burst open when guys have been doing big squats and some very dangerous situations were it not for a good strong spotter being on the ball, not to mention that excessive pressure on your patella is very very bad for your knees. **
BUT for widegrip pull-ups they can be very useful as very often most peoples grip fails before their lats and rear delts do, so it can help you get MORE out of the workout.
Belts......thats a long debate that has many opinions, used properly a belt allows you to generate more leverage utilizing your core muscles, so ironically you actually need a certain type of strength anyway for a belt to do anything at all, and most of the cheap shitty £20 york style weight belts aren't actually stiff or strong enough to do anything, if you want a decent belt you need to spend £60-£100, I had an Inzer Lever belt and that was superb. Those idiots that wear a belt for their whole workout have no idea, but plenty of people whack a belt on when maxing out, or when on those last two heavy sets of squats and deadlifts, my belt didn't get used every week, but it did get used, make of that what you will.

I have worked extensively on this, and have found that "cheating" the body, by training with a weak core, fails to give consistent strength gains - and usually results in imbalances that lead to injury.
Enjoy your training, and hit "all" of your goals..... effectively!!
I'm suprised it took you extensive work to realise this, but...agreed ;)
Shit training=shit gains, you only get out what you put in.

my two pence :)

I heartily disagree.

I struggle to grip 100kg deadlifts for anything more than a rep or two, as simply do not have the forearm strength.

By your suggestion, I should be dropping the weight to where I can lift unsupported for a full set of reps, which would mean 80kg. At that weight, I would be training in a different manner, and not achieving my objectives, all for the sake of forearm muscles that I don't really need nor want.

Have you tried a staggered grip, or are you using a standard claw grip?

Do you much in the way of snatches? They are really good for building up grip strength, I've got some mega strong grippers that go up in strength, really good for building up grip strength if you wanna borrow em? When I hit 180kg it took me two months to break through to 200kg because my grip couldn't manage it, so I trained my grip up!

I am brutally muscular and compact, I can run for several days straight without sleep, often carrying animals like bison or oxen, I can punch my way out of cabs and can pound a woman to death in under a minute.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs"]YouTube
- Powerthirst[/ame]

Ah man this thread makes me want to get back into training. Its now been 18 months since I set foot in a gym longest time away in 11 years and I've got to say i miss it. Think I might have to join up again and see just how weak I've become.

I'm kinda bored of the gym these days, but I am going to take up indoor rock climbing pretty soon, and i'm starting back swimming regularly as of tonight, woohoo!

I'm kinda bored of the gym these days!

Tell me about it... I cancelled my gym membership about 8 months ago, never been happier! Treated myself to an array of kettlebells and an olympic set and have never looked back!

I wish you could pay to spectate in gyms though, I do miss watching the T-shirt muscle crews and the groups of guys that would sit at a smith machine for hours on end...oh the joys, and the people who think they have the right to give me tips!! ... when they are bending over backwards whilst doing their 300 rep sets of bicep curls! haha

Interested to read this tread, I like most cycle daily and for leisure, I also go to the gym 3 - 4 days a week, 2 days I do Gung Fu training, and try do 2 days weights. Started the Gung Fu in Jan, since then I have dropped a stone in weight, and am currently about 9.5 and 5' 9", would taking a protien shake make a difference, I am thinking I might be too thin, but eat plenty. Not very clued up on supplements etc?

CrazyJames, I meant in no way to offend you, but your tone - in response to my post was pretty fucking defensive.
This is a cycling forum, and my response was aimed at resistance training for cycling
Please let me explain my earlier post:
In a flexed cyling position - lets use the track for an example - your lats contribute to stability on the bike by drawing your arms into the body and to assist in sprinting. FACT. In this instance it is a core stabiliser.
and what the hell is a rotator muscle? if you're talking about the rotator cuffs then they in the shoulder area, quite far away from your "core"........
Are you aware of what medial rotation and lateral rotation is????? Well guess what - we have muscles in our legs that medially and laterally rotate the hip joint. You really did want to make me look stupid didn't you......

I'm suprised it took you extensive work to realise this/ Right idea but wrong explanation,
CrazyJames - i apologise again, if i offended any of your current training methods, but i aimed my advice at cyclists, and not powerlifters.
I was merely sharing my experiences from working within a neurological rehabillitation environment, and expressing my findings, which i have applied to exercise performance.

CrazyJames, I meant in no way to offend you, but your tone - in response to my post was pretty fucking defensive.
This is a cycling forum, and my response was aimed at resistance training for cycling
Let me explain:
In a flexed cyling position - lets use the track for an example - your lats contribute to stability on the bike by drawing your arms into the body and to assist in sprinting. FACT. In this instance it is a core stabiliser.
and what the hell is a rotator muscle? if you're talking about the rotator cuffs then they in the shoulder area, quite far away from your "core"........
Are you aware of what medial rotation and lateral rotation is????? Well guess what - we have muscles in our legs that medially and laterally rotate the hip joint. You really did want to make me look stupid didn't you......

I'm suprised it took you extensive work to realise this/ Right idea but wrong explanation,
CrazyJames - i apologise if i offended any of your current training methods, but i aimed my advice at cyclists, and not powerlifters.
I was merely sharing my experiences of working within a neurological rehabillitation environment, and expressing my findings, which i have applied to exercise performance.

Apologies if my tone came across as defensive, it wasn't intended in that manner at all, and sorry if I was a bit arsey.
With regards to the discussion on lats, yes they stabilize your core whilst on a bike and during movements that is correct, but they are not by definition core stabilization muscles (excuse the extreme pedantry coming up):

The core or LPHC (lumbo-pelvic-hip complex) is made up of two categories of muscle groups.
**1) the stabilization system-inside muscle group and **
**2) the movement system-outside muscle group. **
**The stabilization system is responsible for the stability of the LPHC and includes the transverse abs, internal obliques, lumbar, pelvic muscles, diaphragm. **
The movement system consist of the lats, hamstrings, hip adductors, hip abductors, rectus absominus, and external obliques.

You referred to them as core stabilizers which they are not, as they are not directly involved in stabilizing the core in all instances which is what defines a core stabilization muscle, independent of whatever movement/exercise is taking place, this applys to any exercise, not just cycling/powerlifting.
I'm aware of what medial and lateral rotation is, fairplay I was an arse in responding to that, just a lot of people try and bullshit about that kind of stuff which annoys me, its clear that wasn't your intention now so I apologize.
You didn't offend me, I clearly just made some incorrect assumptions about what you meant which lead to behave like a bit of an arse, sorry if I offended you.
I'd be very interested to hear about your workings in a neurological rehabilitation enviroment, as I suffered massive nerve damage in one of my legs quite a while ago which still affects me from time to time.

Its amazing how much leg strength improves when your core muscles are functioning at their optimal - and in balance with each other.

SNIP

We're talking lats, glutes, hip flexors, rotator muscles etc.

SNIP

I have worked extensively on this, and have found that "cheating" the body, by training with a weak core, fails to give consistent strength gains - and usually results in imbalances that lead to injury.
Enjoy your training, and hit "all" of your goals..... effectively!!

weak glutes has resulted in my knee stability problem which was diagnosed by my physio videoing me on the bike as well as doing one legged squats where my knee shoots over to one side as the glutes are not keeping the leg straight.

hopefully once my core/lower back is stronger my leg stability will improve.

Power snatches (essential this is done with good technique and a low enough weight to avoid injury)
Full snatch (from the ground, again essential this is done with proper technique!)
Barbell rows
Close grip rows
Wide grip pull-ups

I'm going to set up a program for the cycle I'll start next week so tips like the above is of great help. Thanks.

Didn't want to google terms like 'full snatch' at work... so didn't respond straight away, but now I've been searching the interweb for them all and it seems that the only one of your above list that is OK to do with dumbbells is barbell rows. That weird dude on youtube uses a wide barbell but you reckon it will be ok with a free weight in each hand?

I was thinking of combining this with the one where you sit with a straight back bending just a fraction forwards so that you push the weights upwards more or less behind your head. Am I onto something here or do these exercises cancel each other out?

Anyone feel like suggesting a third exercise for my back? If I need one that is

Hey can anyone give me advice on gaining strength without size. I know with any gains growth will be invitable but I wanna start doing some climbing and a good strength to weight ratio is essential. Should I do heavy weights with low reps?

try this:- nothing can touch it for the things you have said
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKynnDT76VU

try this:- nothing can touch it for the things you have said
YouTube - Ashtanga Yoga: The Primary Series - John Scott

I have been interested in doing this for a while but am unable to find any classes that don't cost a fortune!

yeah london can be like that, if you can get somewhere to start a regular class of other practice (iyengar,integral,bikram perhaps) then that gives you a good foundational knowledge. Many aspects are the same throughout although this is the most dynamic. most people think that its all pear shaped women in drafty halls, trust me its not.Also check out David Swenson, P.Jois (the originator), B.K.S Iyengar, Erich Schiffman. Good luck.

:)
Nice one CrazyJames - if we were in close proximity - we could possibly become good training partners..... my demonstrations are better than my explanations! Respect due.

@Mr Smyth - I'd be interested to hear about your progress. Hope things are good otherwise.

Hey can anyone give me advice on gaining strength without size. I know with any gains growth will be invitable but I wanna start doing some climbing and a good strength to weight ratio is essential. Should I do heavy weights with low reps?

Size gains are more to do with diet than training if you want to maintain a good power to weight ratio then you need to be sensible on your calorie intake and type of foods you consumer, also the types of protein....this is going to be a long post, i'll get back to this after dinner!

:)
@Mr Smyth - I'd be interested to hear about your progress. Hope things are good otherwise.

one thing i do know is it's possibly going to cost me a fortune putting it right, but i follow the exercises to the letter and have found some glute working ones off the internet. hopefully it will be sorted soon.

I'm going to set up a program for the cycle I'll start next week so tips like the above is of great help. Thanks.

Didn't want to google terms like 'full snatch' at work... so didn't respond straight away, but now I've been searching the interweb for them all and it seems that the only one of your above list that is OK to do with dumbbells is barbell rows. That weird dude on youtube uses a wide barbell but you reckon it will be ok with a free weight in each hand?

I was thinking of combining this with the one where you sit with a straight back bending just a fraction forwards so that you push the weights upwards more or less behind your head. Am I onto something here or do these exercises cancel each other out?

Anyone feel like suggesting a third exercise for my back? If I need one that is

Why is it you are so bothered about using dumbells? No really I say that not as an condescending comment but as a genuine question, I remember going months, in fact nearly a year without so much as touching a dumbell, it is not essential to use them all the time, dumbells rows are different to barbell rows, they are NOT the same exercise, and do not hit the muscles in the same way. The exercise you mention above is much better replaced by the standing military press, a superior exercise which not only hits the exact same muscles but hits your core muscles far more than a seated overhead dumbell press (the exercise you talk about above). You also want to press in front of your face when doing a standing military, look up youtube or picture sequences for details of correct form for that exercise.

I really appreciate your help CrazyJames.

dumbbells? it's just that I've built up a pretty good set of York barbells and discs. part gumtree part argos, got a nice adjustable bench too. whole kit cost me less than two months of the gym membership I had before. wouldn't cost much to get a wide barbell of course, but I live in a cramped rented flat, I just see myself ruining the floor and knocking stuff over. I liked dumbells much better than machines and barbells even when I was in the gym anyhow, for all the reasons mentioned before in this thread I guess.

OK, standing military press it is then. any suggestions as to what I should add to that? I realize I've at some point or another done all of the stuff the youtube weirdo gets up to. as far as dumbbell exercises for the back go he does dumbbell rows, dumbbell pullovers and bent over dumbbell rows. are any of those good to add to military press for a complete back routine?

I take the hint, I should brush up on the terminology a bit. :-) funnily enough it was my mum who taught me the seated overhead dumbell press, I just never knew the name.

Steer clear of dumbell pullovers, another one of those exercises with a high risk of injury, you can do whatever you want with dumbells but my suggestions remain unchanged ;)
I'll post up some more info and stuff tomorrow, i'm really tired now and gonna piss off to bed in a sec.

:)
Nice one CrazyJames - if we were in close proximity - we could possibly become good training partners..... my demonstrations are better than my explanations! Respect due.

@Mr Smyth - I'd be interested to hear about your progress. Hope things are good otherwise.

We havent managed to ever get together and we only live 2 miles away. lol

My deadlift went up to 90kg the other day, well chuffed. Although theres this guy way smaller than me (tiny tiny chap) who can lift 200kg for seemingly endless amount of reps. Guess thats what time training gets you.

I dont use a belt for anything, and I totally understand and feel the importance of core strength. That is why I only do big compound lifts, never anything sitting down or with a back rest - lol

Its done wonders for my posture to say the least. Things like strict overhead presses really demand a lot from stomach muscles and glutes to keep you straight. I have also started to do overhead squats, front squats and lunges occasionally with bar in proper rack position. I have found this extremely challenging, nothing at all like back squats. It is really difficult to lift tiny weights.

Also do romanian deadlifts to build up glutes & hamstrings more to balance squat build quads.

Interested to read this tread, I like most cycle daily and for leisure, I also go to the gym 3 - 4 days a week, 2 days I do Gung Fu training, and try do 2 days weights. Started the Gung Fu in Jan, since then I have dropped a stone in weight, and am currently about 9.5 and 5' 9", would taking a protien shake make a difference, I am thinking I might be too thin, but eat plenty. Not very clued up on supplements etc?

You shouldnt need any supplementation if you are eating properly. Focus on getting enough calories from good quality food. Your weight suggests you are incredibly skinny. Carbs are great for weight gain, eat a load of pasta/rice ideally after exercise as large carby meals will make you tired. Get good fats in you from dairy, red meat, fish, palm or olive oil. Saturated fats are necessary for testosterone which will in turn help you build muscle.