Twat on motorbike

as oliver says on many an occasion and I am fond of repeating, when riding a bike "we are traffic", and should act like it.
Too often cyclists act like victims, yes we are more vulnerable to injury then drivers of cars/taxi's/lorries etc, but so are motorcyclists.
Stop acting like traffic is your enemy and you are at its mercy, if you are traffic, act like traffic, too often we want to have our cake and eat it too, being vocal about being traffic one minute, and other road users should look out for us, and respect our vulnerability, then scooting the wrong way down a one way street the next.

Well put. However, 'acting like traffic' of course ...

Don't get me wrong I break a lot of the rules of the road when riding, but hey that's how I learnt to ride and as long as I don't hurt or endanger myself or others I will continue to do so.
...doesn't imply acting like those road users act at the moment who violate the Highway Code. Violations of the Highway Code by cyclists lower the status of cycling. The concession for getting to be treated as traffic is to subscribe to the rules applied to regulate traffic. Boring but true.

I'm the first person to argue that a lot needs changing, but until it is, remember how you're perceived and what brilliant excuses you're giving to people who want to have something that they can cite against cycling.

Lots of the complaints on here are anecdotal and from where I'm sitting as both motorbike and cyclist, seem to be yet more bleating for special dispensation.
On the other hand, it is clear that the strategic direction of transport policy needs to change more and more in favour of the sustainable modes. This is not arguing for special dispensation, but to restore more justice to the transport system. Walking is the default mode of transport, and cycling the default non-walking mode of transport, and as such facilitating them and increasing their use must be the primary concern. (This is of course not only about the modes using which we travel, but also very much about the spaces in which we live.)

EDIT: just seen Oliver's post, with which I agree heartily. Prizes are on offer for actually spotting a Met traffic officer, though :-(

Much of their work is in collision investigation, and you rarely see them out and about--there are only 700 for the whole of London, after all! It's patently ridiculous that there should be so few.

What gives me the dry hump is other cyclists not asserting themselves at the ASL, and queuing in traffic behind the motorcycles.

Invariably, the motorcycles then drag race from the line, scattering cyclists, pedestrians and pregnant ladies carrying babies and puppies and kittens.

Cunts.

Fuck that shit, I am a very assertive rider, and that's how you have to be in London. If you make your presence known and you ride with confidence, asserting your position on the road when necessary and not allowing yourself to be bullied by any vehicle, then the majority of the time you command the respect of the road users around you, obviously there will always be wankers out there no matter what, but by riding like this you safeguard yourself against problems much more so than by riding in the gutter like a meek little puppy waiting to die. If any other vehicle thinks they have more of a right to the ASL then me, I make sure they know that they don't by cutting round them and taking position in front of them, I then like to occasionally reinforce this by only just jumping the red where possible so I get a head start away from the lights, just to remind them that the ASL is there for a reason :)

Aye. I do kinda feel for them, which is why I specified "the Met" (as institution) rather than directing my little rant at the specific ticketer. Morale is pretty low generally, I understand, in part due to pressure to produce "results" to be measured in crude numerical terms, which of course militates in favour of the sort of the policing I'm moaning about.

Much of their work is in collision investigation, and you rarely see them out and about--there are only 700 for the whole of London, after all! It's patently ridiculous that there should be so few.

Quite. Nice little vicious circle there too - no bugger stopping people from driving dickheadedly, hence lots of accident investigation tying up the people who would otherwise be stopping people from driving dickheadedly and so ever on.

Aye. I do kinda feel for them, which is why I specified "the Met" (as institution) rather than directing my little rant at the specific ticketer. Morale is pretty low generally, I understand, in part due to pressure to produce "results" to be measured in crude numerical terms, which of course militates in favour of the sort of the policing I'm moaning about.

I agree with you there, if the petty ticketing was aimed at motorists in the cycle lane we'd not be complaining would we, (well I wouldn't) I guess traffic offences are all the same to the met. It should be extra points for getting cars!

"However, CTC would also draw a distinction between policies to improve motorcyclists' safety (which we support) and those which would lead to increased use of motorcycles (which we do not believe can be justified)."

I've never understood this. People encourage cycling as a healthy, ecological transport method, but they never mention motorbikes. The more people on motorbikes (as with bicycles) the safer they would be; and they're more fuel efficient than cars (and loads more fun).

Obviously some people have been turned off riding from the stereotypes of bikes (either Hells Angels or the Sport bike contingent come readily to mind), as many might be from the stereotypes of cycling (lycra. LYCRA!) but I wonder why the CTC can't justify the increase in motorbikes?

.

@lpg Mcycles are often in the right portion of ASL boxes having arrived at the lights filtering down the centre of the carriageway. That's been the case ever since they were invented (the ASLs).

I am actually in partial agreement that it shouldn't bother us, as they are generally best off ahead of everyone. I was commenting that I feel there's more Mcycles on the left side of them, that's all. I would like to see ASL boxes for M'cycles, seperate from ASL boxes for bikes, on the the right half and left half respectively. Or something like that.

Corny I really don't think there's actually a lot of 'bleating' going on in here. I really don't.

'If you don't have anything good to say, don't say it' that's your motto, right?! ;) BIG WINK

you guys seem to have gone off track waffling about asl's and bike lanes,

what about after an argument with the mbiker and you think he's turned off, he turns round and smacks you in the back of the head!!

that is what pissed me off so much, and he was tiny, if only i could've got my mitts on him!!

yellow you really oughtn't bother confronting people, I think.

Cue Tynan.

I agree with you there, if the petty ticketing was aimed at motorists in the cycle lane we'd not be complaining would we, (well I wouldn't) I guess traffic offences are all the same to the met. It should be extra points for getting cars!

In terms of risk, it really should be - I did this calculation a while back, but never posted it. I think it gives a decent perspective on why anyone in rapid motion has a duty of care (but particularly those in rapid motion in a big heavy steel box):

E=0.5mv^2:

for simplicity, taking v=10m/s (~22mph):

Fat bloke on bike: E = 0.5(100)(100)=5000J

Ford Focus (lightest model): E = 0.5(1,229)(100) = 61450J

Muzzle energy of .50 BMG: 15000-20000J

I had a little fun with a superbike a while back... as I approached the ASL (with solid lines), there was no traffic in sight and he was sitting right in the middle twiddling his throttle, so I thought it would be funny to cycle up to him & lightly place a finger on the back of his bike to assist my track stand..... causing him to wobble a bit on his v heavy pride & joy

Well he didnt see the funny side of this, but bless him..he did try to take me out, after he'd waited for me to pull away... we then exchanged a few roadside (un)pleasantries and both went on out way.... possibly quicker to cycle without enraging others

Two wrongs don't make a right do they now.

I've never understood this. People encourage cycling as a healthy, ecological transport method, but they never mention motorbikes. The more people on motorbikes (as with bicycles) the safer they would be; and they're more fuel efficient than cars (and loads more fun).

Obviously some people have been turned off riding from the stereotypes of bikes (either Hells Angels or the Sport bike contingent come readily to mind), as many might be from the stereotypes of cycling (lycra. LYCRA!) but I wonder why the CTC can't justify the increase in motorbikes?

I'd generally agree but m.b are not alway more efficient than cars as most m.b are sporty to some extent, plus if you have > 2 people in a car, it actually has pretty good carbon foot print per mile.

I've never understood this. People encourage cycling as a healthy, ecological transport method, but they never mention motorbikes. The more people on motorbikes (as with bicycles) the safer they would be; and they're more fuel efficient than cars (and loads more fun).

Obviously some people have been turned off riding from the stereotypes of bikes (either Hells Angels or the Sport bike contingent come readily to mind), as many might be from the stereotypes of cycling (lycra. LYCRA!) but I wonder why the CTC can't justify the increase in motorbikes?

This is all covered in the CTC briefing:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/resources/Campaigns/0806_CP_RG-PTWs-v2_brf.doc

However we draw the distinction between policies to improve powered two wheeler safety (which we support) and those which would lead to increased use of motorcycles (which we do not believe can be justified). We believe that, in addition to the risks which motorcycles pose to their riders, policy decisions in relation to motorcycling also need to reflect:

• The direct environmental impacts of motorcycling (i.e. the pollutant and noise emissions resulting from PTW use);
  
• The safety impacts of motorcycling on other vulnerable road user groups;
  
• The various ways which increased motorcycling undermines the promotion of the healthier and more sustainable alternatives of walking and cycling, both by undermining their relative attractiveness in general terms, and specifically due to the actual and perceived threat which motorcycles present to (would-be) pedestrians and cyclists.
  
  
  

There's more detail in the document if you're interested.

you guys seem to have gone off track waffling about asl's and bike lanes,

what about after an argument with the mbiker and you think he's turned off, he turns round and smacks you in the back of the head!!

that is what pissed me off so much, and he was tiny, if only i could've got my mitts on him!!

Best thing is not to start the argument but if/when it happens forget about it and laugh it off. What he did was really stupid but don't let the incident turn you into an idiot, you are better than that and keeping your cool when things go wrong will impress people.
Ride safely :)

I generally think, from what I have witnessed in down there, is that *most traffic users *attitude stinks generally. Too much aggression, stress and above all, bloody minded selfishness causes most of the incidents.

Though I could be wrong.

For those of you who cycle in places like Edinburgh and Manchester, have you ever cycled in London and how does it compare?

...
Ride safely :)

You gem!

5-0* was on the junction of Moorgate & London Wall this morning. I asked if she was enforcing the ASL, to which she replied in the affirmative**.

Unfortuntately, I reckon she was just after RLJing cyclistas.

Ah, I wish I'd been there. I'd have to stop and chat. Then you can ask them "So you gonna do that taxi for encroachment then, yeah?" "What about Mr Addison Lee? Go on, get 'im." "Ooo, you've got that Beamer a good 'un, eh. He's banged to rights."

You reckon they'd move you along for doing that..?

However, 'acting like traffic' of course ...

...doesn't imply acting like those road users act at the moment who violate the Highway Code. Violations of the Highway Code by cyclists lower the status of cycling. The concession for getting to be treated as traffic is to subscribe to the rules applied to regulate traffic. Boring but true.

I'm the first person to argue that a lot needs changing, but until it is, remember how you're perceived and what brilliant excuses you're giving to people who want to have something that they can cite against cycling.

oliver I hear you, and I try to be like traffic as often as possible, but in certain situations (and you know what they are) I will break from being law abiding to get myself ahead of traffic, or just because I can.
How I'm perceived personally as a cyclist I can control, I can smile, be appreciative of traffic which makes allowances for me, make people aware of my presence, don't ride like a loon in areas where pedestrians have right of way, and generally be a good kind presence in the world, in terms of how cyclists as a mass are perceived I have no control over that, and no wish to involve myself in changing wrongly held perceptions apart from on a one to one basis.

Skully, just because I bite the proverbial internet lip most of the time, doesn't mean I can't raise my head above the parapet to give my point of view. I can chat just as much shit as the rest of you, I just choose not to, because it gives too much ammunition for people to lob back at you when you try to make a serious point. so there.. ;-P

YouTube - Judas Priest - Breaking the Law

If you need technical information, check the CTC briefing:

http://www.ctc.org.uk/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabID=4790

Ah, the famous document with the utterly discredited outright lie:
Dangerous to themselves and to others. Motorcyclists place not only themselves at risk, but they are also disproportionately hazardous to pedestrians' and cyclists' safety as well. Per mile travelled, PTWs are about 1.5 as likely as cars to be involved in collisions which cause serious injury to cyclists, twice as likely to be involved in causing them serious injuries and about three times as likely to be involved in killing them.

I am going to easts now, but I will comprehensively destroy this ludicrous crap tomorrow. Oh yes, you'd better believe I have the evidence to back it up.

everyone against the nasty motorcycles...... please, from my own findings, motorcycles are far more alert, and more aware of their own mortality than wanky bus drivers and cabbies. As a keen london cyclist and motorcyclist, van driver, and scooter rider i see more cyclists riding like twats than any other form of transport.

eastendpete, has you read the topic? the general consoluation that motorcyclists are usually safe, every mode of transport will always have a bad apple.

Have to disagree with people about never seeing traffic police cars. They're all over the east end, especially the main roads, like mile end / whitechapel. They drive toyota landcruisers over this way, and there are quite a few. Only the other day there were two of them right opposite uni, in the process of loading a pulled-over car onto a recovery truck. Another un-insured driver off the road probably.