What would you do if the forum had a subscription fee (to post classifieds, etc)?

"Fat Elvis owes me a monkey"
Just heard that on Eastenders. Priceless.

^

My dad's parter she is watching it downstairs.... luckily she won't watch katie and peter again.

If you do go this route, how about a full pint glass under name that reduces quarterly to an empty glass after 12 month thus also serving as a reminder?

*How much more work would this create and could it be fully automated with software tying in with donations?

*=Programming dimwit question

HaHa, i like that idea a lot.

Oh and also i didnt even realise you could donate on this forum, first of all i would make sure its nice and clear where to donate and nice and simple :)

Online content is never free. It takes money to establish and maintain websites, and that includes time spent by those providing written content and dealing with site administration.

Charging to use the buy and sell forum might work, though the cost should be set at a level low enough to be competitive with eBay (which is thoroughly evil, and should be ground into the dirt from which it emerged).

Charging for full membership of the site as a whole is another option, but it may deter some from dipping their toes into the water. It could work as long as long as there are no restrictions on reading posts, and there are one or two open forums in which non-subscribers can at least introduce themselves and maybe get a little feedback from experienced single-speed and fixed-gear cyclists to their questions.

I would favour the second option.

A presecription fee would be a good idea if you were out of pocket. It is sites like this that help other gain knowledge or not*^&%!!!. What the fee should be I am not sure

Of course, when the forum was small effectively the whole thing was free as it was so small it could live on a server being used for another purpose and there were no charges (for the first few months). But as the forum grew the site has required not only its own server but a second server too... so something that once was very free now has a real cost.
Then let people know. A lot of sites that require donations keep a monthly target up to let people know that this costs money.

I wouldn't have imagined this forum taking up 2 servers, my estimate of the cost would have been way off. It would also help with the animosity some people are displaying towards the idea of you making big bucks off other's helpful posts etc. as they'd see that the server is a money drain, and it's not all going in your pocket. I'm in no way saying that you "don't have the right" to make a bit of cash yourself, but the content here is user generated, the forum is just the distribution model.

but the content here is user generated, the forum is just the distribution model.

Your logic fails me.

novelocio = noforum = nocontent

simples…

Then let people know. A lot of sites that require donations keep a monthly target up to let people know that this costs money.

I wouldn't have imagined this forum taking up 2 servers, my estimate of the cost would have been way off. It would also help with the animosity some people are displaying towards the idea of you making big bucks off other's helpful posts etc. as they'd see that the server is a money drain, and it's not all going in your pocket. **I'm in no way saying **that you "don't have the right" to make a bit of cash yourself, but the content here is user generated, the forum is just the distribution model.

So what are you saying?

So what are you saying?

That he's shit-thick?

At least the voting seems more representative than the poll that killed rep.
Waves at Aidan
Aidan?
Aidan?
Aidan?
Oh...

I don't know whether or not this has already been mooted, and I don't have the patience to read all 500+ posts, but how about giving the first three months of "membership" for free, and charging thereafter. While I am happy to subscribe (and have already donated - THE BUTTON IS UP THERE ON THE TOP RIGHT; PAYPAL; DEAD EASY), I have been on the site for some time and have developed a healthy addiction already.

3 quid is not a lot, and I don't believe that we would lose many of the regular members who actually contribute to the community (as opposed to those who just take).

Your logic fails me.
This wasn't meant to be the main focus of my post, but here it goes.

While you put a lot of work into the forum, the forum is the bricks and mortar, and an online community is more than that. All the helpful posts, and even the less helpful ones, they're not created by you or people that you employ, they're all effectively volunteers if you see what I mean.

Of course you shouldn't have to pay for the server costs, but the reason people have been commenting on "your rights" is because while the structure is yours, a lot of the content really isn't.

My main point was meant to be if people don't realise how much it costs to run this server, they're either going to think that everything is working fine without them or that donations are for a new saddle or something. Put a little "Server Costs - £0/£0" sign up and people might be less worried about what you're up to with the cash as they know it's going into keeping the forum running.

David's time and expertise costs too.
Or it bloody well should. He gives enough of it.

OK, So I've closed the poll (which I had to do as I was using an account on Zoomerang that related to a work investigation of survey technologies) and here are the results based on the views of 1,363 forum members.

Basically everything left of 5.5 is various degrees of "no thanks", and everything right of 5.5 represents various degrees of "yup, sure"... and the no thanks have 57% of the vote whilst the yay's only have 43%.

By and large, it seems that the bulk of people are more against than for... and it's just you addicted nutters who are totally enthusiastic about giving me your hard earned money.

On the question of which features people felt should be linked to a subscription fee:

Classifieds and storage seem to be the things that people felt most willing to pay for. I interpreted this (along with the many emails) as a general view that there is a willingness to pay for classifieds, but that no-one really knows how this would work.

Quite a few emails discussed per advert fees, but this is just not practical to implement as it really requires micro-payments and there's so many ways to get around it.

Finally... on the question of how much:

2 Beers a year was most favoured. But this is very subjective... what you want to pay is more closely aligned to what value you feel you get from the forum.

Which leads me onto the next bit... donations recently have been stunning. So stunning that 3 months worth of donations arrived within a week or so of this debate starting.

That wasn't the intent, but it does show that perhaps I hide the costs too well and whilst there is a willingness to donate there's just no info on the needs.

Anyhow... as for what I've decided to do, it's pretty much this:
1) Voluntary ad hoc donations and annual donations... this will use code, I'll build a form for it.
2) Indicators about whether someone has donated on their members page.
3) No perks or favouritism... you just get a warm glow, donations are just donations and not a service charge.
4) Merchandise to make up the rest.
5) Investigate sponsorship for the adverts for guests rather than Google AdSense which makes pathetically small amounts considering the number of page views.

Things I'll consider over time:
1) Whether the sponsorship for guests extend to non-donors so that the sponsors get greater value... i.e. if we take a load of money it's probably to reach our audience, which means you guys would have to see it.
2) Keep subscriptions off the table for at least a year but leave it open as a possibility in the future. If growth continues as it has done and we haven't yet jumped the shark, then there might still be a problem in the future with funding and this may not have been solved by donations... so it's very much a question of whether donations + merch + sponsorship works as to whether we can avoid subscriptions.

As for Classifieds. I still don't see a major problem with the Wild West system we have.

That said, I am considering having some kind of official badge/identifier for traders so that people who earn a living from trading can be identified and made official to some degree... this also means that representatives from shops can be easily identified... i.e. shop14 could have an official username and some mark that proves I verified that somehow. These people would be given a page listing them in some way so that it becomes a directory of traders. For this a donation would be expected, but it's up to the trader how much this is, as little or as much as they value the resource.

So...

No subscription.
Donations to be identifed.
Fully open and free to use for everyone with no perks for some (beyond being identified).
Merchandise to fund most of the forum (the T-shirt competition).
Possible sponsorship instead of Google ads, and if so possibly to all non-donors.

All sound good? (not that it's open to much debate now.)

3 Attachments

BTW, should anyone be interested. I used 4 major survey technologies in the last fortnight... and if you're considering any Zoomerang is the best of the bunch. However, if PDF reporting is your thing... abandon hope and write your own. Even Zoomerangs PDF export was dire. Lord knows how they all got that so wrong, but they did.

Seems a comprehensive / fair strategy.
Still can't believe how many stingy leeching bastards there are out there though!

Sounds like a plan. The donator identifier should draw more attention to that subject and, hopefully, keep the donation coming without the need to ask. Can the identifiers be linked to a donate button / insight as to why donations are needed page? This would help steer curious clickers in the right direction.
Agreed that 'traders' should be identified.
Ultimately the aim presumably must be to keep things as simple as possible for yourself so you can continue to enjoy running your hobby.

BTW, should anyone be interested. I used 4 major survey technologies in the last fortnight... and if you're considering any Zoomerang is the best of the bunch. However, if PDF reporting is your thing... abandon hope and write your own. Even Zoomerangs PDF export was dire. Lord knows how they all got that so wrong, but they did.
Did you try surveygizmo? Used it for my dissertation any it's pretty good.

I'm coming late to this, and I'm not sure what my view counts for seeing as I lurk rather than participating, and have only been a member for about ten minutes. Nonetheless ...

i) I don't think VB should be bound by the views expressed in the poll: informed, but not bound

ii) The site can be a business or a community, not both - and unless there's some form of constitution that makes it effectively a members' club, I think subscriptions tend to turn it into a business, which then carries expectations around service levels, content quality and the like

iii) It's legitimate for the owner of a business to take profits: I believe a community has no single owner, so no single person or small group should be taking profits - if they're being distributed as profits they should got to the community

iv) It's entirely proper for a community to pay for the skills and time used to maintain the infrastructure of that community, but there should be a degree of transparency in this, as there would be in a co-operative. One big danger is that it couldn't afford commercial rates, so continues to rely on goodwill which may be damaged by the assumption that it will continue

v) VB should not be financially out of pocket (and has a perfect right to charge for time and skills used)

vi) I'd probably have been put off lurking to the extent I have if there were tiers of paid-for membership - and I'm very glad I haven't been. I have benefited and do appreciate what is to be found here

vii) I quite like VB's solution as proposed above, though not sure I'd necessarily want the fact someone's donated to be too obvious

(And before anyone starts, I have read the rest of the thread, and I have used the wee donate button, which I just hadn't spotted before all this started, and probably wouldn't have clicked on were it not for the info provided about server costs and all the rest ...)

i) I don't think VB should be bound by the views expressed in the poll: informed, but not bound

That, begets this...

vii) I quite like VB's solution as proposed above, though not sure I'd necessarily want the fact someone's donated to be too obvious

And the donor status would not be obvious, it would be discoverable. It would be on the profile page, but not beside every mention of the name.

Well, it sounds like a plan, and one very close to my own preference.
Yet more evidence that I really am right about everything :-)

waits for Plagiarist to say "except the misuse of punctuation as emoticons" or similar

Well, it sounds like a plan, and one very close to my own preference.
Yet more evidence that I really am right about everything :-)

Since when has popular opinion equated to being right?

Anyhow... as for what I've decided to do, it's pretty much this:
1) Voluntary ad hoc donations and annual donations... this will use code, I'll build a form for it.
2) Indicators about whether someone has donated on their members page.
3) No perks or favouritism... you just get a warm glow, donations are just donations and not a service charge.
4) Merchandise to make up the rest.
**5) Investigate sponsorship for the adverts for guests rather than Google AdSense which makes pathetically small amounts considering the number of page views.
**
Things I'll consider over time:
**1) Whether the sponsorship for guests extend to non-donors so that the sponsors get greater value... i.e. if we take a load of money it's probably to reach our audience, which means you guys would have to see it.
**2) Keep subscriptions off the table for at least a year but leave it open as a possibility in the future. If growth continues as it has done and we haven't yet jumped the shark, then there might still be a problem in the future with funding and this may not have been solved by donations... so it's very much a question of whether donations + merch + sponsorship works as to whether we can avoid subscriptions.

I'm going to do this bit openly. The sponsorship pitch will be on this site so that it is proven to the sponsors that it is genuine.

I am not sure of the value of sponsorship, I suspect it may be successful enough on it's own to mean that I can get rid of the ugly Google adverts and not have to do merchandise, and that sponsorship and donations alone could sustain the forum alone.

Anyhow, as always I'm making this stuff up as I go along... I find it's the best way.