What would you do if the forum had a subscription fee (to post classifieds, etc)?

I probably am going to.

However I don't know what features to tie to the subscription, and I don't know what price the subscription should be... both are vaguely related to each other, and also tie to the notion of "what the market will bear".

The point of the survey is to help give me substantial guidance on that by getting the view of a few thousand members (including the lurkers) rather than just the view of a few hundred addicts.

Nothing fundamental has been raised as an issue with the whole idea, but the idea mooted about was knee-jerk, not very well defined and had a price plucked out of thin air. So before I rush into something I want to get that bit right.

Velocio - I have only been here for a few months but would happily pay £5 a year. Plus master's econ grad so if you wanted to do a survey of all members I could probably profit max your subscription fee/compromise profit with max. members

I'd definitely need a blowy for that though

Oooh that was fun.

Plus master's econ grad so if you wanted to do a survey of all members I could probably profit max your subscription fee/compromise profit with max. members

I'd definitely need a blowy for that though

^^^^ that's what the lovechild of Edsquabble and Rik would sound like…

A sub is ok...but what about those of us who are on 'Benefits'.....there would need to be some sort of sliding scale......that is fair.

I have been surveyed. Thanks.

Who's giving blowies?

No offers of blowies as yet. Will update as they roll in.

I was serious about the subscription fee though. It would be easy enough to make a model and find the optimum level for the fee. You would have to design a survey that would give you the info you need though. As I said earlier I would happily do this if it would help, for a blowy.

A sub is ok...but what about those of us who are on 'Benefits'.....there would need to be some sort of sliding scale......that is fair.

what, you can't do £3 a year, that's one pint of beer a year!

I was initially opposed, but actually I'd pay £3 per year happily. Maybe charge those who post lots in the classifieds threads (ie using it commercially) some extra, maybe 50p per post over a certain limit. That seems the most fair to me.

Yeah, perks for donating are always a good idea.

A donation of £3 a year isn't big enough to use the dreaded subscription term though, I'd probably just say "Minimum donation of £5 to cover the PayPal arseache, and you get a few extra bits and bobs for a whole year"

You'd be surprised how many people will donate if it gets them a gold star or something next to their name!

EDIT - I'd say the inbox/image limit relaxations sound like fair things to include. I have no idea about how the classifieds work here, but maybe some sort of bump/bold/color perk to help people spot yours from the crowd? It should be easy enough to spot who's doing big posting in that forum, maybe direct a PM to the regulars "offering" the brand new improved service? ;)

I don't know, STW have a donation scheme and post up members who donate. Apparently it makes them fuck all

a blowy for each five pound donation?

As someone who predominantly uses the forum for selling i'd quite happily pay the subs but would also welcome the idea of an additional trader fee as someone pointed out its unfair for someone whos selling a £8 seat post once a year to pay the same as someone who is powerselling and making a substantial amount via the for sale & classifieds.

For those who have started to open their eyes to VB's potential profit making from all of this ( a few pages back), i would say that is the least of his reasons. I pm'd VB about trying to advertise on the forum legitimately a few months back and the main reason for decline at the time was to ensure that the community spirit was maintained and so as not to upset the regular forum members even if it meant as i have now read (3 days late) at his personal cost, a decision which although baffling got my maximum respect.

In our current economic climate its crazy for VB to carry the costs when people such as myself have stated that i would be happy to contribute and pay to have the right to sell without feeling guilty or having people post up snide remarks or alternatively to sell me an advertising banner.

I would suggest that although the £3 subscription is good, and more than reasonable perhaps it would make sense to put a maximum amount of sellers posts on for that £3 eg 2 posts per month, those who post above the annual allowance have a higher fee and maybe those like me who would happily pay a trade fee have a avatar sized distinguishable trade avatar with perhaps a link opportunity underneath their forum name. , therefore a unobtrusive form of advertising but also would distinguish between an occasional seller to a trader and in that way forum members are
aware of who they are buying from.

One of the points i read about the subscription fee was of the posibility of putting off potential members, i have to agree with this, hence why i feel it should be £3 for the classified sections so that the rest of the forum can be enjoyed for free by those who are new and just happen to stumble across it.

Alternatively perhaps having a GUEST sub category like many other forums with restrictions on posting and viewing so say they can only post between 9-5 on the guest forums and no other. That way they get a taster and decide on whether to subscribe as opposed to being met with a demand for money straight away without knowing what benefit will be derived from it.

Just my two pennies worth, which probably doesnt make much sense but hey not much does after an afternoon on the beverage!!!

There's a 'donate' button up there, BTW...

I have no problem with the subscription - i know of a snowboarding forum that charges a £25 yearly sub, however the sub is optional, and does not give you any privileges over normal members.

However what is does give you is 10% discount at the majority of Snowboard stores, and some other discounts and some stickers etc.

Would it be possible to do something similar here - perhaps get Evans or similar on board to give members a discount - i know they aren't everyone's favorite store, but we all go in there to get essentials from time to time. I am sure some of the other more boutique shops would be up for this too

Also maybe we could organize a members discount at Herne Hill for the induction course, or something similar?

Any way what i am saying is that i would gladly give 25 quid or so if i got some real world benefit and a couple of spoke cards/stickers/danglers whatever - and i am sure that any discount offered by a shop as a benefit would work out well for the retailer in terms of business.

As has been said before the longer you are a member here, the more you love the place, and the more likely you are to dig into your pocket.

And if VB makes some cash, good for him, because he could have by sell out to in your face advertising/sponsorship all over the forum, but hasn't because hes doing something we wish we could all have done/sorted in the first place

that's a really nice angle there VV, a very good idea !!

rather than rely on lots of people giving little, rely on less people giving more.
Its more viable if it was a £25 Subscription with %10 discount and exclusive deals as a forum privilege.
One of the best ones yet i should think.

Just had what I think is a good idea. Basically a twist on price discrimination - everyone pays what they are prepared to pay. Every member is given the option to 'subscribe' or not. If you choose not to you pay nothing and have access to most of LFGSS. This will enable new/occassional members to contribute.

If you decide you want to 'subscribe' you decide how much you want to pay for a years subscription from 1p to infinity pounds. This way the market sets its own price, everyone pays what they are happy paying.

As a little livener your avatar would show whether you are a free or subscribed member. Also, depending on what you decide to contribute per year you get assigned a bike. For example:

0p unsubscribed/fakenger
1 - 99p Unipack
.
.
£25 and over Gold plated Hetchins or something.

That way everyone has access. If you pay a little towards the forum you have a little more access, plus you can pay what you want/can afford. Occassional users can decide to pay a little as they only use it once in a blue moon. Heavy users/sellers can pay more - if they choose to.

Everyone get's a bike showing what they are so you can't pay 1p and sell all day as the LFGSS community will shame you into doing the right thing.

Basically - the market will regulate itself.

Everyone is happy.

Wheres my blowy?

Would it be possible to do something similar here - perhaps get Evans or similar on board to give members a discount - i know they aren't everyone's favorite store, but we all go in there to get essentials from time to time. I am sure some of the other more boutique shops would be up for this too

Any way what i am saying is that i would gladly give 25 quid or so if i got some real world benefit and a couple of spoke cards/stickers/danglers whatever - and i am sure that any discount offered by a shop as a benefit would work out well for the retailer in terms of business.

that's a really nice angle there VV, a very good idea !!

rather than rely on lots of people giving little, rely on less people giving more.
Its more viable if it was a £25 Subscription with %10 discount and exclusive deals as a forum privilege.
One of the best ones yet i should think.

Good idea indeed--it's been a key feature of LCC membership for donkey's years. 5-15% discounts in the vast majority of all bike shops in London. It typically repays for the membership fee easily within a year, and for the average regular of this forum is likely to do it several times over. ;)

Oliver (LCC)

i would pay to watch the ribbing backbiting alone.... this site is like a modern day colloseum. bring on the christians!!!!!

With regards to the idea of limiting selling to paid up members only is it likely to create preblems with non members trying to sell by posting adverts on existing threads? I guess it will not be that common a problem but when it occurs what will be the solution? Flaming sessions or the need for moderators?
What I guess I'm saying is that whatever system of advantages for membership is chosen, it needs to be such that it does not create a need for changes to the casual way the forum is run and so put additional strains on VB thus taking away the pleasure of running it.

Plus master's econ grad so if you wanted to do a survey of all members I could probably profit max your subscription fee/compromise profit with max. members

Pfffft economists playing at being accountants, whatever next...

I'd definitely need a blowy for that though

I'd do it for a handjob.

i agree with 3 quid subs

i'd be game for paying a little bit, get loads of great advice on here and it obviously takes a lot of time and effort to run

I would happily pay the £3 for a year, even i won't notice that leaving my account and i am a tight arse Scot! Psychologically £3 is a lot easier to hand over than £10 even though i think most of us could still afford it. Is the amount suggested enough to cover costs easily or do we realistically need to give more to keep it going?

I think that most people who use this forum are quite into the scene and therefore will come back again and again so most would pay the dues especially if they are that low and the quailty of info and high end shit talking, banter and bad jokes stays as high. I like the idea of maybe allowing 10 posts for free before having to subscribe as there is nothing more frustrating than finding a good forum but having to pay straight away for something you may nevere use again.

As far as perks go i think it should be avoided if possible. My main reason for not wanting competition prizes is that i feel the impartiality and the honest advice/reviews that we currently get would be compromised by having to please 'sponsors'. My main point of reference for this was an MTB magazine called Dirt which when it first came out was the best biking mag on the market by a mile but as it became glossier and bigger some of the glowing reviews and coverage given to its preferred companies seemed pretty far away from the truth and took the shine of what was originally a breath of fresh air. I kind of feel the same about the discount at certain shops/companies for the same reasons (although it might take BLB prices down closer to what they should be!)

The same goes for having a subscriber only section, i think the whole point of the site is that anyone can join in easily whether they know nothing and have a question to ask or know lots and could make a positive contribution. It would be a shame if for example the rides section moved to subscriber only and folk who are just getting into riding could be excluded from meeting new people by not knowing what is going on. There is already quite a bit of Oldie Vs Newbie chat which goes on and i think this would make that worse.

Either way sorry if this repeats some old stuff but could not quite handle reading all 9 pages and if i log on tomorrow and am asked for £3 then i will happily put my money where my mouth is but otherwise i will carry on using and enjoying this fine forum.

Before this whole debate descends into a capitalist/communist mud-slinging debacle, may I just interject with a ha'penny's worth of wisdom from my old noggin, for I have a salutary tale to tell that may help smooth a few furrowed brows out there in Fixed Wheel Land.

As some of you cycle nuts may recall, the very first online bike forum in the UK (lovemyraleigh.com) faced the very same dilemma in its inaugural year, 1997. Back then, I was running a small, well-loved naturist campsite on the Quantock coast. I was also the proud owner of several vintage Raleigh track bikes, as well as a doughty dual-processor Macintosh 9500/180 MP. On account of a vicious whispering campaign in Nether Stowey, the village I used to call home, I had more time on my hands than my bank manager was comfortable with, so one evening, after quaffing a few too many Thatchers at my local watering hole I hatched a plan with my old mate John 'Zebbidee' Critchen to make a few bob from the Raleigh forum he'd recently started.

In these recessionary time, the idea of a middle-aged man getting cock-a-hoop over a business plan must strike many of you as peculiar, repellent even, but to put all this into some sort of historical context, these were the heady days of Britpop; a time when New Labour was feted as the antidote to Tory sleaze, Millie Ray Cyrus's dad was a chart-topper and Will Smith’s movie Independence Day serendipitously coincided with NASA’s Mars Pathfinder programme to instill in many of us a burning desire to share our earthly bounty with little green men. Oh yes, and - curate’s egg, this!! - Charlie Chaplin's great grandaughter was briefly engaged to Buster Keaton's great great grandson.

But I digress. My proposal for the forum, in a nut shell, entailed a switch to a subscription-based model. For an annual fee, as well as full access to the forum, members would get 10 days free camping at my site. It seemed like a win-win situation: the forum’s membership was after all in, literally, terminal decline. Quite simply, most of its members were elderly and busy, literally, shuffling (sometimes cycling) off this mortal coil. Meanwhile, my campsite had struggled to attract visitors after the Tory council, in an unholy alliance with the local Presbytarian church, had forced me to introduce a partial-nudity-only entry policy (thongs and ‘budie-smugglers’ at the very least)... to save the Quantocks from ‘moral mayhem’, as my nemesis, Councillor Steed, felt compelled to write in the Stowey Herald.

The Swedes and the Fins, my main customers, baulked at this and gave me a wide berth thereafter. But I had a hunch I could attract liberal, upper-middle-class German heritage tourists with a minimalist dress code and vigorous promotion of the Quantock coastline’s similarities with the shoreline around Hamburg.

After a spot of number-crunching on my trusty Macintosh, I alighted on £80.55 as the optimum annual charge (it happens also to ‘spell’ BOSS, which my etymologist wife assured me is a ‘digiverbal-dominator’, ie, a ‘wordish’ number capable of subconsciously winning over doubting Toms... or should that be Gunters!!!).

Anyway, to cut a long story shorter, Zeb agreed, and the forum became a pay site. To our amazement we were inundated with new members - mainly Germans, as I’d predicted. In the first few months, the site basked in an anglo-German honeymoon glow. English and German members swapped phrases, photographs and meat-based recipes-me and the wife even named our first-born Wolfgang in honour of one of our most enthusiastic Teutonic members.

In the summer of ’98, however, things started to unravel. Although the forum was still buzzing, veteran forum folk started to complain that it wasn’t abuzzing with Raleigh talk (the ostensible purpose of the darn thing, after all!). Most of the Germans rode geared Kalkhoffs and had little time for the noble traditions of Nottingham’s finest two-wheeled steel son. After a few online complaints from our more verbose and combative English members, a Germanic wag posted an image of the Raleigh head badge with its great-crested grebe motif photoshopped/disfigured to resemble the German imperial eagle.

To many of our older members, this proved to be, forgive the military analogy, as unforgivably provocative asthe 1939 invasion of Poland by Nazi forces and the earlier 1937 invasion of China by Japan. A second Second World War didn’t exactly break out, but tensions were nonetheless running high that summer as my campsite welcomed a sizeable contingent of German forum members, including Wolfgang senior (who, it seemed, had borne the brunt of much of the anti-German vitriol on the forum), taking advantage of the free 10-day access offer I’d dreamt up to attract new forum members.

In anticipation of an influx of guests, I’d earlier renovated the rather distressed toilet/shower block, extended the bar and added draft Hooky Haymaker to our roster of real ales, thinking it would go down well with the ‘Arian invaders’, as Zeb was now calling them.

In a bid to aid the integration of our overseas guests into our small community, my wife and I had timetabled a number of light-hearted, ‘patriotic’ evening entertainments. At this point I must add that my wife and I don’t drink excessively. We both enjoy a Thatchers or two of an evening, maybe more, on a Friday, but nothing prepared us for the vast amounts of drink our German visitors downed daily, from sun-up to sundown.

I think, in retrospect, the Haymaker, with its 7.5% alcohol content, was an error of judgement on my part. But I refuse to shoulder the blame for what happened on ‘Morris Dancing’ night. After a few too many, Wolfgang, (who’d wholeheartedly entered into the spirit of the folk-dancing theme and hired from a costume shop the full bolero jacket, rag-shirt and four-cornered hat outfit, complete with bells) had, it transpired, opted to spend forty winks on the lavatory.

I admit that positioning the hand-dryer machine so close to the toilet in such a cramped cubicle was a mistake, but my DIY skills are limited and my budget for the refurbishment was hampered by a lack of funds, on account of my earlier legal case with the local council. Somehow, Wolfgang had drifted off slumped against the machine, triggering its blower.

After a period of some thirty minutes, it seems the sustained blast of hot air had caused his cheap draylon shirt to ignite. Roused by the flames, an inebriated and panicked Wolfgang fled the toilet block and stumbled out of the campsite towards the village, tearing off his flaming clothes and screaming anti-English invective as he did so. By the time he was extinguished, the smouldering, and now naked German, had managed to terrify a host of influential villagers, including Steed - most of whom, as the local rag regularly delighted in reporting - already had it in for me.

My wife and son left me not long after the council forced the closure of my camping site and, to add insult to injury, the forum kicked me off and I was successfully prosecuted for promoting anti-social lasciviousness and causing injury by reckless endangerment.

I write these words from inside Edmunds Hill prison in Suffolk, where I share a wing with Jack Tweedy, who tells me he once owned a Raleigh Bomber (whatever that is), although sadly my discourse on the company’s track bike pedigree left him somewhat nonplussed.

So, to conclude, I’d think twice before switching to a subscription-based format.