What would you do if the forum had a subscription fee (to post classifieds, etc)?

tsk, I think we moved from a lower tech version of the board, because of the take up in members, it wouldn't have survived with the numbers that were using it, and vBulletin allows our illustrious leader more space and time to turn off and on functionality when required. I'm willing to be corrected on this if I'm wrong.
Not sure turning off functions would make the forum cheaper to run though..

It's true.

The features of vBulletin allowed us to grow. Vanilla did not support caching posts, using RAM for frequently queried stuff, using a content distribution network, compressing the output to reduce bandwidth, etc. Let alone the management side of things... Vanilla didn't even let me deal with spam easily.

Basically the more advanced and feature rich forum supports a greater number of users at lower cost.

Seems fair enough. Just thought it may be worth looking at the other side of the coin.

Couldn't you disable the photo-hosting function? I would have thought this function would take-up quite a bit of the servers' load and isn't strictly necessary. Also if you do start charging there might be legal ramifications for hosting copyrighted material, the "glossy photos" thread comes to mind.

With 200 odd voting for £3, you are right, you have to consider those that didn't vote.

I'm sure you have guessed what the real number of those actually paying will be (e.g 400/800 or 1,000 vs. the number of "active" users). However telling those who try to join that there are x,000 members and we need to make a charge to allow the forum to be hosted effectively is more than transparent.

A

Couldn't you disable the photo-hosting function? I would have thought this function would take-up quite a bit of the servers' load and isn't strictly necessary. Also if you do start charging there might be legal ramifications for hosting copyrighted material, the "glossy photos" thread comes to mind.

Disk space is very cheap. The costs to the server comes mostly in CPU, and RAM.

Bandwidth isn't really a problem as we're only using about 300GB each month out of a 1.6TB allowance.

I can't see how we're any more liable for copyright taking subscriptions, if we're still a communications service you're still liable for your use of it.

Has the forum now 'jumped the shark'?
I'm not paying.. bloody hipsters .. always after yer cash.. back to weight weenies.. ciao

I was never cool to begin with... was the forum? I think you can only jump the shark if you were once cool, otherwise you just remain fringe as always.

if ya can afford weight weenies ya can afford £3

:^]

Yep, absolutely.
3 squid is not a lot to ask. I've saved shit loads of coin because of the wealth of advise/experience found on this forum....... Bet you most other members have too.

A beer a year, I can spare that, Completely agree with Murso too! Classifieds and Mechanics threads are a major resource, well worth 3 quid!

I would happily pay £3. I would probably pay a lot more within reason. I am on here a lot so it'd be worth it. Also, I have at times sold things (especially recently) through the forum which I am very grateful for. I like to think that as a regular contributor it was not unreasonable for me to do so. I would gladly pay a sellers fee for this if there was one. When donations came up a few weeks ago, I immediately gave some money, partly in recognition of my benefitting from the forum. It's a great place to be and I feel like I've made some great friends here. So, based on those points and others made already, it's a yes from me.

BUT

If I wasn't already on here I might think differently. I am fully aware that £3 isn't much at all but I do believe that it would act as a barrier to new people. Some people don't have paypal and it'd be a bit of a faff anyway. If I wasn't sure whether or not to sign i might not bother if I had to pay. There are certain other kinds of websites that lots of us use that we specifically don't pay for.

Someone stated upthread that a fee would keep the rif-raf out and I agree with this to a certain extent, not because "people with more money are more interesting/entertaining" as Platini so sarcastically put it, but because we only really want people here who want to be here. However, I think it's good that there is a good turnover of people. If you think back there have always been core people (i won't mention names), people who stick around for a fair while, those who pop up now and again and some that barely stay at all. After that there are probably hundreds of people lurking silently in the shadows. I think it keeps things fresh. perhaps a fee would make it psychologically exclusive. There are enough in-jokes as it is and I think to make it any more of a club would be problematic. Whilst perhaps expensive in the long term to fund a popular forum as Velocio has, it's cheap/free to do in the first instance and it'd be a shame if there was a rival!

Velocio/David does an absolutely awesome job with this place, to the point that he is sometimes taken for granted. I think that that's OK as it allows the place to be a real community with no 'leaders'. Those who spend enough time here however get to understand the setup and I'm sure really appreciate his efforts. Could fees be related to how much you use the forum, i.e. free to join with a fee for those wanting to sell things or start threads (a one-off fee I mean, not each time).

One thing that differentiates between this forum and others that I know of is that this one seems more real. People here meet up all the time in the real world and we've (not me personally I should add) organised dozens and dozens of great events of all descriptions, some only tenuously linked to bicycles. We are good at this and in the past we have raised money to pay for overheads and expensives. would that not be a more friendly and diplomat way of generating funds? could some of us who feel inclined to use our initiative to make some moolah? Or has that not proven effective in the past?

Like I said before, I'd be very happy to pay myself, I'm just trying to think of how it might change things.

Thanks.

i reckon a % of each of the sales should go to Velocio made payable by the seller eh Josh ;)

i'll let DK know, don't worry

Back weight weenies just too dull..

"One thing that differentiates between this forum and others that I know of is that this one seems more real. People here meet up all the time in the real world and we've (not me personally I should add) organised dozens and dozens of great events of all descriptions, some only tenuously linked to bicycles."

It seems reasonable to me.

I think maybe the £3 should give you a number of classified thread starts (whatever seems 'normal' usage) and if you want to go above that, you have to pay more. I kind of 'trader' level. This could be shown in the classifieds so people would know if they are dealing with an amateur or a pro.

And if you (VB) wanted to do some kind of shopfront or more permanent selling of merchandise, I would happily help out with planning and running of that side of things. I think that the t-shirts, stickers, prints, danglers etc could certainly run for more than a limited print run and provide a steady trickle of income for the forum and the designers. While there would be some start up costs involved, I'm pretty sure they could be managed with some careful thought. I think there's other retail folk on here too, so if it was a goer we could all chip in. Just a thought.

I'd be happy to pay but then I'm a profligate fucker.

I'd also want a shiny gold star next to my name, a twinkly one. I'll pay extra for that.

I completely agree with a fee - however, it should be totally transparent. If you start to make a profit then you should say so. Truthfully, I would rather not give money to a forum if it is flush or to you personally when there are so many great charities out there.

As for where the revenue would come from - I think classifieds is a bad idea.

The effect of putting a fee on there would most likely be a reduction in items availible.
The effect of putting a fee on the forum would result in less members but most not willing to pay would be time wasters anyway, so that is where the cash should come from, in my view.

Also, another idea today as a result of my inner tube bulk buy was to do the same thing, repeatedly. I pay 1.71 for them, buyers got them for 2 quid each, each tube had a 29p donation to the forum. So my little bit of effort made 14.50 for the forum.

Unlike the other options, this sort of approach has no down sides and is a win-win, since we get cheap stuff too.

In my view LFGSS has the potential to overshadow any shop in London. I have seen other businesses make millions out of growing shops around forums - because they're an instantly loyal cystomer base. This and product reviews would be my personal vision. And I am willing to help.

I completely agree with a fee - however, it should be totally transparent. If you start to make a profit then you should say so. Truthfully, I would rather not give money to a forum if it is flush or to you personally when there are so many great charities out there.

Do you expect all of the time, effort, skill and experience I put in this to be free, forever and always for you to use and profit from?

I don't claim any right to turn a penny into a pound... I have no such right, I got into this through the love of it and not from desire to make money (I could put my effort into many other projects if that was the motive).

The site has been bootstrapped and run with love since inception. But if there is a chance that one day I might be able to treat myself to something and feel the warm glow that the hours, days and months put into this paid me back personally... then I'm afraid I'm going to do it, and I would rather hope that should such a time actually come around (and I'm not holding my breath on it), then the feeling would be that I thoroughly earned it.

That's no motive for wanting the forum to be comfortably self-funding, but in no way am I daft enough to say no to it ever happening.

I can't see the forum being profitable, sometimes it's comfortably off (last summer we had 6 months worth of money in the bank), but mostly it survives hand to mouth. Having survived on a shoestring for so long, any profit it did manage to scrape I would probably be too afraid to touch in case the forum needed it in the future.

You're a frickin' legend VB. I'm sure there's a lot of people here that have used this forum to scrape through some pretty rough times, and to escape from the day-to-day stresses - in addition to share the love of fixed gear/singlespeed riding.
Your time, effort skill and experience is never taken for granted by me, and many others here. Those that care will keep the forum funded.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/05/health/05mind.html?ref=science super relevant?

Do you expect all of the time, effort, skill and experience I put in this to be free, forever and always for you to use and profit from?

I know what you are saying - and I'm not passing judgement on it.

All I think you do owe is transparency, when people can make the decision for themselves.

It would be wrong for people to donate BECAUSE they thought you were in debt or needed it, and that you actually weren't and were making money from it.

I don't think thats unreasonable.

I agree with Super's general sentiments, (as usual..). We also need to be clear what the £3 is for : is it to pay for the site, is it to have the right to sell, is it for profit, or a mixture of all or what. Not being clear about what things are for is partly why rep disappeared, so I think it's important to get this clarified to stop arguments + problems in the future.

I still think that having a barrier to selling won't stop someone who wants to sell something. Say I want to sell an Aerospoke for £200, if people express interest in my For Sale thread then what's to stop a lurker PMing them saying they'll do their spoke for £150, or less. Or if they're still in the nursery, leaving a post with a phone number and email address .. it's all gonna be more work for VB in the long run. You could just have the one-post thing where nobody can comment on classifieds, but do we really want this, it's not very community based, is it? Having a membership fee is a bit all-or-nothing, either everyone needs to pay or no-one, having a two-tier system will create problems.

I love the Forum Shop idea, I think it's brilliant. If we can get the logistics side of it sorted, it would provide a nice source of income that could be split between designers and VB. People could also buy merchandise whenever there's a forum event that needs funding.

VB, you could also still make a profit from donations. If we had one of those thermometer graphics up on the top saying how much is needed, you could arrange it so it fills up once we've donated the £ for server costs + whatever £ you want to add on the top. I know it would be filled every month.

sorry for skim reading if this has already been mentioning, i'm sorry.

Have you looked into affiliate marketing? so each time someone buys through ebay the forum makes a few quid, wiggle, evans and lots of others do this.

I'm pretty sure there will be a vbulletin plugin in which changes the links to these shops automatically

VB, you could also still make a profit from donations.

Sigh, did you not read my rant? I'll say it again... let me bold a bit of it.

I'm not seeking or desirous of a profit. I'm just also not going to run from it or feel that I shouldn't be permitted to benefit should such a situation arise.

No part of making the forum financially sound is driven by a desire to make money personally, but if it ever does achieve that then I sure as hell will spend it on bike porn given the opportunity.

Have you looked into affiliate marketing? so each time someone buys through ebay the forum makes a few quid, wiggle, evans and lots of others do this.

I do this for Amazon links and have made £0.00 in 2+ years. The eBay scheme is based on generating new user registrations that go on to bid on stuff... it's slow growth rate.

I kind of despise large scale adverts though, and if I really were desperate to turn a dime... seriously, with 3.2 million page views a month you would be drowning in the adverts I could put on here.

This isn't a pure fund-raising drive. It's a proposal for classifieds that results in a revenue stream for the forum that might have the potential to fund the forum. But it remains primarily a proposal for classifieds.

Anyhow, heat off on the money front, over £400 has been donated in the last 2 days, and that pushes the doom out another 2 months to 3.5 months away. The point is, I know I can always beg for cash, I know I'll always get it... but that's a really crap way to have to survive, and the higher fees mean it will happen every few months. It already feels tired and old. If subscriptions can do something to give some perks to key users as well as give them priority in classifieds, and it additionally funds the server, then it just looks win-win... I get to not have to don the begging cap, helps me keep my dignity a bit, and I have so little of the stuff I'd like to keep what I have.

I hardly venture outside of the Manchester social group and i would still happily pay £3, regadless of the fact i start very few threads and no classifieds, £3 for the forum is eaasssy money, but howabout an option to see adverts instead, for intermediate members? (sorry if this has already been suggested, but i am far to drunk to read 6 pages of people saying 'yes')

.

sorry mate, i didn't read it.