Oh no... Duffy gets on her bike in Diet Coke spot

ROFL!!!! Duffy didn't actually ride the bike in the advert, supposedly a stunt double was used.

It was you wasn't it Dogs? I knew I recognised your hair.

i'm not a fan of blue stockings, it doesn't suit my complexion

Capitalism plays an important role in global economy. Advertising is just the grease on the wheels.

And wheels need grease to turn ;)

By "important", do you mean that it caused the inefficient allocation of resources, due to the creation of false value?

Not that I'm cynical or anything.

It's a mirror to society, although that doesn't absolve it of responsibility. If we all lived in mud huts and traded with goats and sheep for example, who wouldn't want the most goats and sheep? Not that I'm cynical or anything ;)

I'm meant to be taking her to Rhyl* soon for work. Any questions you want to ask? And no, I don't work in advertising.

• this isn't a euphemism.
  

I'm meant to be taking her to Rhyl* soon for work. Any questions you want to ask? And no, I don't work in advertising.

• this isn't a euphemism.
  
  

Is it true that teenslain was her fixie stunt-double?

It's a mirror to society

Does this have anything to do with those posters advertising advertising on the tube? They scare me.

Does this have anything to do with those posters advertising advertising on the tube? They scare me.

One of my most favouritest silly ads was a press ad for a Clairvoyant. It simply said:

"I knew you would read this..."

underworld?

oh i really, really love this book! you just have to get going with it is all.

By "important", do you mean that it caused the inefficient allocation of resources, due to the creation of false value?

This is an extremely simplistic view... false value? Like your own presentation of yourself on a Monday morning? Like the importance we place within family connections? The desire to live? Please explain what a real value is... something outside of the system? hmmm?

Mostly advertising plays on/off the meaningless of life/culture and our own interpretation to the contrary.

Hey - you should go look at those, they're fab.

I've seen them.

Genuinely, I find them a bit terrifying. As an individual introverted weirdo that doesn't own a TV, or buy things very often, and was too young to grow up with space hoppers (or whatever they make those nostalgic references too), I don't really respond to any of the messages. That just leaves acres of these weirdly coloured ads that seem to be aimed at consumers but are secretly aimed at advertising professionals that haven't been buying enough banner space (??)

And you know that one that says something like 9/10 of you say you like advertising on the tube - but there's always one, isn't there? You know what we're saying!? It's breathtakingly sinister. I feel like I'm being invited round the back of the pig sheds to be quietly disappeared.

Not that I'm paranoid, or anything.

You're definitely meta at it than me

Attribution of true value to a perception, as opposed to intrinsic value. Portraying something as having worth, above and beyond that imparted by the act of promotion.

Monday morning? Family connections? Desire to live? The system? You've lost me.

I'm referring to advertising in the context of the efficient allocation of economic resources. A context in which advertising had an initial benefit (c.f. arbitrating supply to demand, in its capacity as a disseminator information), but ultimately creates distortions in the classical supply / demand paradigm.

Latinate words overload.

[URL="http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h243/tcmartin/scanners4.gif"][/URL]

Fudge... what true value isn't lost through your own interpretation/understanding of it? Explain real value as opposed to false value and I'll come aboard. The idea that advertising inflated the intrinsic value of a product or service or added "bullshit" (as opposed to differentiation) to products is lost when you consider what objective value or worth the product has in the first place.

True, you can achieve something through a product or service, but that remains lost in personal experience, individual consciousness or history/culture. We add the "bullshit" everyday on an individual level with endless signifiers and layers of curious perception, advertising just comes across as a clunky, crappy monster as it isn't as changeable or reactive as an individual... yet, shame.

Capitalism can be attributed to advertising and vis-a-vis, makes no odds in my book, it all comes down to individual decisions to which we're all to blame.

Fudge... what true value isn't lost through your own interpretation/understanding of it? Explain real value as opposed to false value and I'll come aboard. The idea that advertising inflated the intrinsic value of a product or service or added "bullshit" (as opposed to differentiation) to products is lost when you consider what objective value or worth the product has in the first place.

True, you can achieve something through a product or service, but that remains lost in personal experience, individual consciousness or history/culture. We add the "bullshit" everyday on an individual level, advertising just comes across as a clunky, crappy monster as it isn't as changeable or reactive as an individual... yet, shame.

Differentiation should not be achieved through advertising... it should be achieved through difference. Advertising should communicate selling points, not create them.

A good illustration of "real value" versus "false value" would be to imagine a hypothetical situation in which advertising is used to inflate the price of a Unipack beyond that of a Giant Bowery. The Unipack weighs a ton and isn't very durable - it's true value is indisputably lower than the Bowery. The price increase from the advertising in this case would be "false value".

I imagine that you would argue that it is actually "real value" to the consumer who has bought something that they consider "desirable", despite the fact that the desirability is entirely concocted. There is definitely a grey area to be explored here, which is why fixing the value of something (as opposed to the price) is such a challenge. However, just because the line is blurry doesn't mean that it doesn't exist - there is a sensible value there and ultimately it does no good to society to sell goods or services priced wildly away from their value.

I've always wondered how you do those ninja edits...?

A glass of water has value... you can dip your bits in it.

And advertising could be used to up the perceived value of that water, agreed.

The point that I'm trying to make (away from economics) however is that you may drink that water and then feel that bobby-joe who drank the exact same water with the same signifiers got a better deal than you because he's seems much more satisfied. You may also feel that the water at Bobby-joe's house tastes worse than at your own home, you may tell him this even though you believe it not to be true because you'd like to see that smile wiped from his face. You may tell Mary-joe the opposite as you'd like her to invite you round for water more often. You may drink the water because you feel it will quench your thirst, you may drink it for a million other reasons, none of this is down to advertising. We create the complex, inferred, varied reality that we experience everyday and we also create unrewarding relentless signifiers.

Advertising responds to our own desires and lives within our inferred reality, it responds to individuals in the same way a corporation responds to the demands of customers and the needs of the board. It's a monster that everyone has a part in, not just the "ad man".

A good illustration of "real value" versus "false value" would be to imagine a hypothetical situation in which advertising is used to inflate the price of a Unipack beyond that of a Giant Bowery. The Unipack weighs a ton and isn't very durable - it's true value is indisputably lower than the Bowery. The price increase from the advertising in this case would be "false value".

Surely real value would be the individual's satisfaction with the lighter Bowery rather than the heavy Unipack? (As otherwise it's just a characteristic of an unknown object.) What happens if Mr non-LFGSS is more satisfied with his Unipack than Mr new-member-LFGSS who now wants a custom build and can't stand the sight of his Bowery? What happens when the Unipack becomes at the forefront of "cool" because it falls apart so easily and goes against the opinion of the masses? Where's the true value now? Nothing exists until it is experienced or linked to our reality and that very process removes the concept of true value IMO.

Did you mean to write vice versa, as opposed to vis-a-vis?

Yep, I don't often use long words in the correct way... not that that was even a long word, gah. All of my posts are simply my opinion by the by, I weighed in as I felt the thread contained loads of anti-advertising bull.

I imagine that you would argue that it is actually "real value" to the consumer who has bought something that they consider "desirable", despite the fact that the desirability is entirely concocted.

Surely real value would be the individual's satisfaction with the lighter Bowery rather than the heavy Unipack? (As otherwise it's just a characteristic of an unknown object.) What happens if Mr non-LFGSS is more satisfied with his Unipack than Mr new-member-LFGSS who now wants a custom build and can't stand the sight of his Bowery? What happens when the Unipack becomes at the forefront of "cool" because it falls apart so easily and goes against the opinion of the masses? Where's the true value now? Nothing exists until it is experienced or linked to our reality and that very process removes the concept of true value IMO.

Yes, people are quite capable of ascribing false value to things. But that doesn't justify cynically ascribing false value to things for your own benefit.

But let's pretend you're right, the world is full of solipsists and public opinion is the only true currency. In that case, this thread stands as testament to the perceived value of advertisers and advertising... :p

So value when objective is true and value when subjective is false, right, roll on the 20th century... :p

(If value is objective, then surely identity is a false asset making opinion and individual experience irrelevant?)

Worst. Thread. Ever.

Worst. Thread. Ever.

I liked the bit about whether Duffy was attractive.

Worst. Post. Ever.

Fixed.

I weighed in as I felt the thread contained loads of anti-advertising bull.

+1

But then as already stated advertising is an enormously easy target to get on your moralistic high-horse about.

On a slightly separate but related note I remember having a conversation with some art students who were slagging off advertising to the hilt. Pointing out to them that if they wanted to be successful during their own lifetime as artists they would have to get used to the idea of selling themselves - Damien Hurst, Tracy Emin and Chris Ofili are all great examples of artists who also know how to manipulate media and sell. Or, great examples of leading, modern, british artists. Or, both. Again depending upon personal interpretation...

wtf Duffy should be shot !
shit music
shit face
shit leggings
lol rant over

So value when objective is true and value when subjective is false, right, roll on the 20th century... :p

Well postmoderism was fun, but I don't think I'd want to make a career out of it.

You are claiming the opposite to that straw man [i.e. subjective = true; objective = false], but just because I disagree with you does not mean that I am saying the opposite to you...