Motorcycles in your bus lane

I'll stick to taking the position I think is safest for me. If it fucks off some moto behind me, tough, get a real bike. ;)

Agreed. I think most motorcyclists assume this is what any other vunerable road user will do.

With regard to the perception of safety, I found this document which demonstrates just how far removed from the actual facts the LCC et al are distorting it

...Motorcycle: 50

So the LCC's claim that motorbikes are loads more likely to hit you than a car, is quite frankly, politically motivated bullshit, created by a severe distortion of statistics to suit their aims...

That's funny! Reminds me of a discussion with a Friends of Richmond Park idiot about the 20mph limit in the park. He said that speed was a significant factor in most accidents - I told him that when I've been knocked off bikes and motorbikes it's people travelling less than the speed limit that were the problem. He then said that my evidence was not statistically significant, and anyway, most of his cycling buddies couldn't do 20mph on their bikes, so they were happy. Tw@

Don't have a problem with motorbikes; its all the bloody buses in the bus lanes that's the problem.

lets focus on our real ENEMY London black cabs and those private hire bastards they are all CUNTS!!!

and squirrels!

VeeVee where's the love? Squirrel hating?

As long as it's only the grey ones (the red ones hide up north.)

this thread needs to HTFU, untill I saw the title I had no idea motor bikes where not allowed in bus lanes, i just went around them. If some one was a dick to me i HTFUed and kept riding. I don't like Motor bikes blocking gaps, but go around when I can, and wait when i cant, its generaly not a huge deal, I have had close calls with motorbikes coming out of the ASL (with me infront of them) and passing on the side i was turing towards, but this would be the same if i was in the ASL and they where at the other line.

True say brother crash.

No one is disputing this. Just the fact that allowing motorbikes, mopeds in the bus lane will make it more difficult to cyclists.

Better for bikers but more difficult (but hopefully not more dangerous) for cyclists.

The danger perception comes from the media and the agression on the roads. Ask your colleagues what they think. I do not need to read what the LCC says to hear every day "YOU ARE SOOO BRAVE!"....

VeeVee where's the love? Squirrel hating?

As long as it's only the grey ones (the red ones hide up north.)

You know I love red squirrels!

As the statistics show!
@fudge - download the document - go to page 70 - after the table it goes on to explain that section. It might not even be on road. it might be kids falling off bikes and cutting their heads open or breaking their arms. It might be me falling on my arse at Whites Row Car Park. If the location is not stated it goes into the stats as a road accident. The full table has the police stats too and this section is virtually none (well who calls the police just cos they fell off their bike?), but the vehicular accidents roughly tally.

@hippy, yes it's bicycle collisions, because we were talking of cyclists perception of their own safety, and it's relevant. I don't think there is a similar chart for motorcycles in that doc.

this thread needs to HTFU, untill I saw the title I had no idea motor bikes where not allowed in bus lanes, i just went around them. If some one was a dick to me i HTFUed and kept riding. I don't like Motor bikes blocking gaps, but go around when I can, and wait when i cant, its generaly not a huge deal, I have had close calls with motorbikes coming out of the ASL (with me infront of them) and passing on the side i was turing towards, but this would be the same if i was in the ASL and they where at the other line.

All the discussion on ASLs is they exist for cyclists but are used by motorised vehicles all the time. We all work around them and as Hippy says we position ourselves where it is the safest. Very good that you are a strong boy who can HTFU, why does it have to be the law of the bullies?

That cycle lane under the arch is a joke - the arch is too small for 2 lines of cabs and a bike lane. It's also hard to see from a car because you invariably approach it in a queue, not from a clear run. In my opinion the middle gates should be open and made into the bicycle lane.

Not for the cyclists it's not.

Make it only one lane of cars, which I think was the original idea, then there's room for bikes, cars and motorcycles. The first two weeks after that lane went in, the cars kept to a single lane and it worked well. The idea for using the middle gate for cyclists would then have us merging left into the motorbikes, which as you mention, try to stay to the right of the cars. Sounds like a recipe for trouble.

That junction should be redesigned and the central island should be shrunk and the junction moved back so that filtering is safer and easier.

Agreed.

Here's the document.
Road Causalties in Great Britain 2006 on a link from the CTC forums. It makes interesting reading.
For a start motorcyclists are 3 times more likely to be killed or seriously injured on the road than cyclists.

Is that adjusted for the relative number of motorbikes to cycles on the road?

It´s funny isn´t it? everyone go about how dangerous it is to cycle in London and all that bollocks, which is the opposite really, I mean in Venezuela for instance, 3 cyclists get killed every weeks.

Is that adjusted for the relative number of motorbikes to cycles on the road?

I don't think I have ever seen single file cars through there.
anyway to answer your question, no I don't think it is - it's total casualties I think, based on incidents reported to police - cyclists around 2484 and 6,484 for motorcycles. Page 7.

It doesn't have figures for number of cycles registered obviously because they aren't. but it does have figures from traffic surveys and suggests that nationally 4600 million vehicle kilometres are travelled by bike and 5200 million vehicle kilometres by motorbike. - cars and taxis are 4,024. London must surely skew that in favour of 2 wheelers by a massive amount though.

There are loads of raw tables of stats in there, so maybe someone else could find what I couldn't
For example someone asked specifically about London figures:
Cyclists Killed or Seriously Injured :392 (so included in the previous stats I quoted)
Motorcyclists:849

All the discussion on ASLs is they exist for cyclists but are used by motorised vehicles all the time. We all work around them and as Hippy says we position ourselves where it is the safest. Very good that you are a strong boy who can HTFU, why does it have to be the law of the bullies?

Vee, thats slipped down the slope

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+1!

WTF Crash? We're having a sensible discussion here. Go bugger off to the "celebrities" thread if you're bored.

I've had a m/c licence for fifteen years+ and I used to be a m/c courier too, I've m/biked around London a lot...
If I use the bus lane then I'll be riding along very carefully indeed, as I'm a lot more vulnerable than the militant cyclist realises. I'm also very well aware of how much damage I might do, a lot more aware than your average bus driver is. And not as vindictive as some cab drivers appear to be.

ps.Motorcyclists rev their engines to make other road-users become aware of their presence. I thought they were being knobs too, till I got a motorbike and found myself doing it. I've got loud exhausts on my bike because I'd rather people were aware of me than not, it's a lot safer all round.

I might fit a siren to the cuntster.. nee nah nee nah nee nah.. watch 'em scatter! :)

:) :) :)

I might fit a siren to the cuntster.. nee nah nee nah nee nah.. watch 'em scatter! :)

i got chased by a pushbike copper and the siren was so fucking loud i thought it was a car!

I've had a m/c licence for fifteen years+ and I used to be a m/c courier too, I've m/biked around London a lot...
If I use the bus lane then I'll be riding along very carefully indeed, as I'm a lot more vulnerable than the militant cyclist realises. I'm also very well aware of how much damage I might do, a lot more aware than your average bus driver is. And not as vindictive as some cab drivers appear to be.

ps.Motorcyclists rev their engines to make other road-users become aware of their presence. I thought they were being knobs too, till I got a motorbike and found myself doing it. I've got loud exhausts on my bike because I'd rather people were aware of me than not, it's a lot safer all round.

I get why motorcyclists rev their engines. To be fair though I don't think it's entirely necessary. I mean, you've got to be fucking deaf to not hear them in the first place. I especially can't stand it when I'm in an ASL, a motorbike is directly behind me and he's "revving his engine to alert me of his presence". I know you're there mate. How about you shut that shit up and just pass me when there's room.

Sorry, jar. Not directed at you. But there are some fools out there that need to tone it down a bit.

I've had a m/c licence for fifteen years+ and I used to be a m/c courier too, I've m/biked around London a lot...
If I use the bus lane then I'll be riding along very carefully indeed, as I'm a lot more vulnerable than the militant cyclist realises. I'm also very well aware of how much damage I might do, a lot more aware than your average bus driver is. And not as vindictive as some cab drivers appear to be.

yeah i know, motorcycles are not going to go very quickly down bus lanes, it's far too dangerous. the risk is not worth it. motorcyclists have always given me lots of room when overtaking, never had a problem/altercation with one, so them using bus lanes is completely fine with me. it's gonna be fun racing against them!

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+1!

WTF Crash? We're having a sensible discussion here. Go bugger off to the "celebrities" thread if you're bored.

fallacy of the slippery slope

I just cannot see it being a problem at all. Although I do think there should be a 20mph limit in bus lanes, this should also apply to buses, but not us cyclists of course.

I just cannot see it being a problem at all. Although I do think there should be a 20mph limit in bus lanes, this should also apply to buses, but not us cyclists of course.

this i agree with.

Nah.. if I'm drafting buses, scooters, motos, the speed limit should start from 0 and move off slowly to 15mph, then up a bit faster to 25mph and then slow again until 30-40mph, depending on how tired I am on the day.. yeah.. that'd be a speed limit I could appreciate.. :)