Motorcycles in your bus lane

Will the laws be changed regarding those L-plate riders then?
New motorcycle tests are coming in March 2009.
I expect to see a lot more riders on the roads soon (recession).

I welcome our fully-qualified, two-wheeled friends into the bus lanes.

+1 to Skully and BlueQuinn.
Read BlueQuinn's post, hopefully it will make people think before knee jerk reactions and lumping motorcyclists in with vans, taxi's, buses, etc. Anything on two wheels is inherently more vulnerable than their four wheeled counterparts and this bus lane rule/law means all two wheeled users will be safer.

+1 the people I really feel sorry for are unicyclists.

but seriously motor cyclist are in general good, the bigger the bike usually the better. The old boys on massive touring BMWs always seems super chilled and on the ball.

The motorcycle testing system is getting even more complicated and difficult next year - big campaigns in the motorcycling community against the new tests and they are seen as prohibative to new riders - i wouldnt expect to see more motorbikes, but more scooters is likely

Currently if you do not want to ride a motorbike, but do want to ride a scooter over 125cc, there is an automatic test you can do, which is simpler than a full test, but still focuses on proper road safety and awareness - personally i think this should be mandatory for all scooter riders - i remenber a couple of years back a girl i know bought a scooter, having done her CBT, picked it up drove about a mile and called me up to come and drive it for her as she shat herself on the roads and didnt feel capable, this despite the fact she had passed all the legal requirements to ride a scooter on the road - some of the riding you see on scooters makes me want to look away in case of the worst

You have hit the nail on the head there - as both a cyclists and motorcyclist, under trained scooter riders are the road users i am most wary of

hmmm. how many trained cyclists on the road do you meet.

What you guys are forgetting though is that the government/Dft/TfL (whoever) say that they want to encourage people to cycle but this new scheme does not make sense. Some cyclists are going to feel intimidated by other motorised vehicles in bus lanes. Bus lanes are not always very well maintained and are full of potholes so it is difficult to stay in a straight line.

Although there are a lot of good motorbike/mopeds riders around, there are a lot of bad ones. If one collides with me, I know who will be hurt. And if more accidents happen between motorbikes and cyclists we know how it will be reported/perceived by everybody "cyclists are stupid and should pay tax and learn how to ride". They will be blamed.

ASLs should be respected and used by cyclists only.

Sorry - don't agree with BlueQuinn. Most of that doesn't chime with my everyday experience of bikers.
Obviously there are some good / considerate etc motorbike riders, but in ASLs and bus lanes particularly, the majority of mopeds & motorbikes weave in & out with no regard to anyone else, block any available space and generally make life a lot tougher for cyclists.

And bikers use ASLs because cyclists don't? Just bollocks.

Villa-ru

I overlooked BlueQuinn's thing about why Mbikes are in often in the ASLs, seemed slightly warped. But to be honest I'd rather they were alongside me or ahead of me at lights than behind me, so I've stopped stressing about them in ASLs.

Veevee
You have a point that cycling should be encouraged actually as well as theoretically.

But (!) I feel Mbikes in Bus, Taxi & Cycle lanes will not seriously worsen what is already a pretty bad lot. I have to say Black cabs are more of a problem since they seem to feel their manhood is being questioned if they don't get to pass a cyclist who is doing 10-15mph in order to wait in traffic 25 metres further along, and so try to squeeze cycles into the gutter.

I've never seen a motorbike, or even a scooter-ridden-by-a-twat, push a bicycle out of the way an occupied ASL zone
If there is room for a motorcycle in there it's obviously because there isn't a bicycle in that space.

ETA: and I think new riders are far more intimidated by bloody great big buses in the bus lanes that piddly little motorbikes.

Yeah and I'd rather the twatty ones were where I could keep an eye on em i.e. not behind me.

I've never seen a motorbike, or even a scooter-ridden-by-a-twat, push a bicycle out of the way an occupied ASL zone
If there is room for a motorcycle in there it's obviously because there isn't a bicycle in that space.

ETA: and I think new riders are far more intimidated by bloody great big buses in the bus lanes that piddly little motorbikes.

I see what you mean now, but it's more a matter of getting there and finding it is already full of motorbike/scooters, or more often, there is no gap left to access the ASL. It can be really intimidating and also leaves cyclists stuck in the midst of the traffic as they set off.

Having said that, I think there are far worse dangers on the roads - the ASL thing is just my personal irritant at the mo'. Probs need to ChillTFU.

Just last week I had some twat on a motorbike right up my arse revving the engine like mad as I was trying to negotiate a section of my commute that combines an approach to a junction where the traffic pulls out on the left because it has no clear sightline down the road, underfoot (wheel?) is some badly repaired road surface and the lane is prone to cars entering from the right quite fast.
The safest place for me is well out into the second lane. This gives me space to see and be seen by cars from the left, is the smoothest road surface and avoids a sharp-edged drain cover. I hold this position until I've passed the junction and then it's back into the centre of the first lane.
clearly I'm going too slowly for the prick on the motobike, but having gotten so tight in behind me, I can't see past him to check for a clear lane to my left, nor can I tell why he hasn't just overtaken on the right (he could have). I held my line longer than I wanted to becuase I couldn't tell if he was going to undertake me on the left.
Needless to say he overtook with about an inch to spare (absolutely deliberately) on my right.
30 seconds later we're at the same set of lights side by side and he's just looking at me and revving the engine like mad.

Now 99.99% of the motorcyclists I encounter give me no grief at all, but this is the second time in 6 months I've had to put up with behaviour like this. Personally if I can have my bus lane to myself, I'd like to keep it that way.

I've never seen a motorbike, or even a scooter-ridden-by-a-twat, push a bicycle out of the way an occupied ASL zone
If there is room for a motorcycle in there it's obviously because there isn't a bicycle in that space.

ETA: and I think new riders are far more intimidated by bloody great big buses in the bus lanes that piddly little motorbikes.

My experience is different.

Normally the cycles can't get into the ASL because it is full of mopeds and bikes already, or I can't get into it because the motorbikes/mopeds are blocking access and stopping right in front of the feeder lane to the ASL.

Also, I've had quite a number of close calls with motorbikes pulling away from the within the ASLs with absolutely no regard or consideration for the cyclists - mostly un-signaled left turns from the centre or right lane, being overtaken on my right when I'm trying to turn right.

Just because you are a considerate rider does not make all motorcycle riders considerate. In equal measure, just because I don't RLJ doesn't mean that all cyclists obey red lights.

The interesting thing to see with this new policy is how it will work in practice. The paving of most bus lanes, with all of the current water and gas works, is in a pathetic state. Will cyclists be given the space to avoid the inevitable potholes, cracks? At what speed will we get passed and with how much space?

I've never seen a motorbike, or even a scooter-ridden-by-a-twat, push a bicycle out of the way an occupied ASL zone
If there is room for a motorcycle in there it's obviously because there isn't a bicycle in that space.

What a strange comment!!!
Just look behind and you will see cyclists waiting because they couldn't go into the ASL or are pushed into the pedestrian crossing.... Everyday at busy junctions I have to wait behind cars because it is impossible for me to filter as the ASL is blocked by bikers and mopeds. And yes like Skully I have to accept it because it is safer, I never know if the biker on my right in the ASL is not going to turn left into my path.
Does it make sense??
Yep, let's push cyclists out of the way.

The interesting thing to see with this new policy is how it will work in practice. The paving of most bus lanes, with all of the current water and gas works, is in a pathetic state. Will cyclists be given the space to avoid the inevitable potholes, cracks? At what speed will we get passed and with how much space?

Yes that is going to be interesting....

Sorry BlueQuinn et al but the study to which you refer has been shown to be flawed and the results unreliable. Personally, I don't beleive there should be any change until there has been a properly structured, longitudinal study.

Sorry BlueQuinn et al but the study to which you refer has been shown to be flawed and the results unreliable. Personally, I don't beleive there should be any change until there has been a properly structured, longitudinal study.

Do you have a link to the evaluation of the study? Should make for an interesting read.

What a strange comment!!!
Just look behind and you will see cyclists waiting because they couldn't go into the ASL or are pushed into the pedestrian crossing.... Everyday at busy junctions I have to wait behind cars because it is impossible for me to filter as the ASL is blocked by bikers and mopeds. And yes like Skully I have to accept it because it is safer, I never know if the biker on my right in the ASL is not going to turn left into my path.
Does it make sense??
Yep, let's push cyclists out of the way.
go to work earlier ;)

The point in all of this is that we agree that there should be facilities for bikers but to take away and abuse the little protections (bus lanes and ASL) given to cyclists is shocking and backwards.

Most road accidents involving cyclists are not recorded. How will they be able to measure the impact of the change?

go to work earlier ;)

I actually take a longer route and go through the park. I am running a campaign against squirrels though. They are a menace!

As this thread has all gone a bit C+, I'm going to insert an off-topic rant:

Why the fuck don't the majority of road users know that when you're at a cross-roads, and you want to turn right, and someone coming the other way wants to do the same, you're supposed to pass each other on the far side ie. past/behind them, unless there are markings on the road instructing you to do otherwise?

It's common sense. If you pass in front of each other, you can't see what the fuck's going on on their side of the road, so the risk of a collision with oncoming traffic is greatly increased.

I've taken to signalling quite late, as otherwise the oncoming right-turner is even more likely to cut in front of me - I've even had police cars do this.

It irritates the fuck out of me. So there.

EDIT: nearside-nearside allowed :(

ASLs should be respected and used by cyclists only.

everyday motorcycles especially in rush hours *always *not only go on the ASL (best example is the clerkenwell/theobald's road) but go a little bit in front of the ASL!

pissed me right off getting almost sandwiched by a HGV only to find several motorcycles on the ASL lane.(actually I should specifically mentioned that it look like those courier motorbikes and some l-plated one).

My experience is different.

Normally the cycles can't get into the ASL because it is full of mopeds and bikes already, or I can't get into it because the motorbikes/mopeds are blocking access and stopping right in front of the feeder lane to the ASL.

Also, I've had quite a number of close calls with motorbikes pulling away from the within the ASLs with absolutely no regard or consideration for the cyclists - mostly un-signaled left turns from the centre or right lane, being overtaken on my right when I'm trying to turn right.

1+

You can read this for now.

lets focus on our real ENEMY London black cabs and those private hire bastards they are all CUNTS!!!

lets focus on our real ENEMY London black cabs and those private hire bastards they are all CUNTS!!!

Nobody our enemy, only bad driver are.

Actually I have to says I did a small test on how many bad drivers there are and how many considerate one on the stretch from Clerkenwell to Wimbledon (11 miles).

I have counted (and I use that lynx click thingy, you know the one that everytime you got eyed by a hot lass you have to click it);

56 considerate driver*
8 bad drivers*.

The thing is here, we never think about the considerate one, we automatically forget them and concentrate on the bad drivers so much, that we think the road is simply littered with bad drivers and not a single considerate one.

*(i.e. giving me a generous space between me and the vehicle, stopping behind the ASL, not attempting to overtake me in desperation on a narrow road, usually double decker buses)

*(one for instance in a very fast late 90's BMW that look like it was built by the French going must've been 50mph really close to me almost knocking me off, and a mini-cab pushing my bike out of the ASL so he can be in front).

Look, you have idiots riding both bicycles AND motorbikes . How many times does it happen that i see a cyclist on a flashy bike being such a cocky idiot on the road that i swear under my breath that he should know better . But also i see motorcyclists behaving like complete morons too - getting too close, showing off their acceleration etc etc.

If a driver is a fvckin moron, then whatever he's riding he'd still be a danger to himself and others on the road. Examples like "the other day a motorbiker was [ doing this or the other] " or " a cyclist [was going to sloow ? came out of nowhere ? etc ]" are completely pointless, you're always gonna get idiots in whatever you do.

I have to agree though that teenagers on mopeds, with only the basic road training, pose real danger to everyone around, whether on motorbike or bicycle. Bring on stricter licensing !