2008-09-24 - Rider Down/Fatality, Holborn

You ride like a dickhead. Find another route to work.

^ harsh... but fair.

I had hoped you rode in that way purely to highlight some issues about the non-entity that is Upper Thames St cycle lanes.

If you do that every day, you're a bit spazzy in the brainbox. Granted, you move forward quicker than all the 4+ wheelers, but as recommended by adoubletap, please find another route before some coked-up cunt in a builder's lorry wipes you out.

I can't agree. I've ridden across town with plenty of people here and they will ride taking the same level of risk or more.

Herbgerb, good effort at showing exactly what "cycle lanes" do and what it's like to ride on this road.

I agree it's not a particularly enjoyable or safe road to ride though.

Well, I did say if it was to highlight the inefficacy of cycle lanes it wasn't so bad.

I've ridden across town with plenty of death-wishers too, but it doesn't stop things like squeezing up the inside of National Express Coaches being fucking stupid, and reckless if it's part of your daily routine.

It seems daft to me that you would have to educate people that juggernauts are big and dangerous and that drivers have blindspots particularly as I would say that 90% of drivers aren't blindin looking where they are going anyway but you know if you save one life it would have been worth it - let me know when you have your paypal donation button set up - I'll bung you my beer money for good luck - buddha

Fucking hell Herbgerb, I appreciate you might be trying to highlight a problem, but your riding scares me. I admit that I lose focus some time and do things that I shouldn't, but you've got a death wish. Just because there are cycle lanes, doesn't mean you have to use them!

Stay safe people - and make sure you ride to be seen!

You ride like a dickhead. Find another route to work.

That's a bit rude if you don't mind me saying.
It's hardly worth me sending Tfl a video of me riding where it's not dangerous.
It is however worth me sending Tfl a video of me riding in an area where it is.
It's possible someone died because of these problems on this very same road.
All I'm doing is highlighting the dangers and Tfl will see this.

Oi leave herb alone he is a good fella he can't very well highlight the dangers of the road space if he is weaving all over the road like TSB anyway doubleatap is a sound geezer who has given me good advice in the past and he probaly didn't mean to sound so harsh ...Buddha

I do love the English "That's a bit rude if you don't mind me saying" oh bless you are so polite

I do love the English "That's a bit rude if you don't mind me saying" oh bless you are so polite

It's no use me displaying the same lack of eloquence.
"Hi I'm adoubletap, by the way you ride like a dickhead"
Pleased to meet you too. At least the other people who commented were concerned about my safety.
Thank you!

ride like a dickhead? he ride better than 90% of the cyclists in London frankly (far more considerated too, especially being more aware of the truck/HGV of which the other 90% just risk their lives).

plus he's following what TfL wanted the cyclists to do, even if it risky, it's a good video to show the ineffectiness of the cycles lane (as other has pointed out).

I saw a bloke weaving left and right, jumping red light, overtook a truck and has no light on a couple hours ago, that's a person with a penis on their head.

I saw a bloke weaving left and right, jumping red light, overtook a truck and has no light on a couple hours ago, that's a person with a penis on their head.

Or he could have been some dude lke me who has being doing this lark for thirty odd years - it is best not to make judgements - I feel more comfortable riding at speed in six lanes of moving traffic than I ever do in a cycle lane (Rue de Rivoli)- this debate started with a woman who thought she could go toe to toe with an 18 wheel artic on a push bike - I know who I think are the bloody menaces out there

Great vids, thanks herbgerb. They highlight why Upper/Lower Thames Street should not have a cycle path on it at all.

Adoubletap.. is this the right way to greet someone new to the forum, someone who obviously cares a great deal about this issue and is actively trying to do something about it?

Herbgerb,
I think some of the comments were harsh, but I find watching that video scarier than watching Lucas Brunel carving through traffic during alleycats.

The design of that cycle lane i simply a death trap. In several places you slide up alongside HGVs where they can't possibly see you. If they move left to avoid something on their right (something you can never see or predict from your road position) you will be crushed and they will never even have known you were there.
Surely the northern route through the City must be safer and possibly faster for this part of your route?

Your road positioning is guided by the cycle route, not by what you should be doing to be safe. My main reason for not using most cycle routes, and avoiding roads like this.

I saw a bloke weaving left and right, jumping red light, overtook a truck and has no light on a couple hours ago, that's a person with a penis on their head.

Or he could have been some dude lke me who has being doing this lark for thirty odd years - it is best not to make judgements - I feel more comfortable riding at speed in six lanes of moving traffic than I ever do in a cycle lane (Rue de Rivoli)- this debate started with a woman who thought she could go toe to toe with an 18 wheel artic on a push bike - I know who I think are the bloody menaces out there

so you overtake a lorry at a corner sandwiched by a taxi on an MTB and almost hitting a peds twice? doubt it really.

thanks herbgerb
+1 Good evidence of vehicles mistreating cycle lanes.

+1 Good evidence of vehicles mistreating cycle lanes.
should compile a list ;)

Does anyone have contacts at LCC/CTC?

I'm a CTC National Councillor for London. This is an issue that I will be pressing CTC to work on, together with LCC. If anyone has suggestions they'd like to put forward please let me know.

R.I.P to the rider. Very sad news. Was he/she part of this forum?

R.I.P to the rider. Very sad news. Was he/she part of this forum?

he was part of the community.

herb - when you cruised past that left turn 1.15 into the first vid, my heart was in my mouth.

herb - when you cruised past that left turn 1.15 into the first vid, my heart was in my mouth.

That's precisely the same reaction I want the recipient of the email I've just sent to Transport for London to have!
Thanks for your concern by the way!
And also to everyone else.

he was part of the community.

That's a nice way to think about other riders.
The girl killed in Holborn worked where I work, although I didn't know her.

On a downside - I spoke to a guy today who witnessed the immediate aftermath of the accident this thread was originally about.

It appears that the lorry overtook the cyclist, and did a sharp left turn........not giving the cyclist enough time to stop. We know the rest. I was given further details of the how everything looked, but I won't share it. It was just bad.

Thankfully, sentiment here has led to action to create greater awareness of this type of incident.

You ride like a dickhead. Find another route to work.

That's not on. The whole point of his video is to show how dangerous the dedicated route is and he should be applauded for that not dismissed.
And what of people like myself? Am I to find another magic route when I have a delivery on that street? And what of Seb, the courier killed there a few years ago? Perhaps it was his fault for riding like a dickhead too? I never give -ve rep but you certainly deserve some.

Thanks again for the video

I'm a CTC National Councillor for London. This is an issue that I will be pressing CTC to work on, together with LCC. If anyone has suggestions they'd like to put forward please let me know.

everytime a cyclist is killed email every london mp and local councillor.

encourage the pedestrian society to do the same for pedestrians.

in the last four days i have seen.

pedestrian hit and runned on manchester road e14.

cyclist hit and runned on westferry road e14.

two car smash on a13, e14.

all this is in the constituency of the minister for road safety - jim fitzpatrick.

RIP to the cyclist and best wishes to the family.

On the topic of Herbgerb's video it was a great example of bad driving, bad cycling, bad town planning, etc.

I was worried about you in those videos, specifically half way through the first riding along side the truck. I was cycling home the other night and a dude undertook a truck, well, he didn't actually undertake it, he just rode along side it, in the blind spot. It really frightened me, I quickly over took the truck so I wouldn't have to be involved in any of that.

You should never ride beside a truck, you stay behind it or get past it so the driver can see you. Cruising along side it, in the blind spot is certain death.

That said, its a great video to send to the tfl. Given that education of drivers, revision of planning policies, etc is going to take a long time to happen it means all us cyclist can do is try and be safe.. sure its someone else's fault.. but its our life.

We banned HGVs from the city centre in Dublin.

Peace