2008-09-24 - Rider Down/Fatality, Holborn

And when I hear people going on about it being the bad cyclists fault I have to cry because it's always the safe guys that get killed. Dare-devils rarely do. That's sod's law for you (not that I would wish an accident anyone).
Whoever you were. God bless and Rest In Peace.

Actually it´s both, not just the safe guys that get killed.

sometime it´s the HGV fault, sometime it´s the cyclist, that´s all there to it.

There really needs to be some kinda training imposed on cyclists who are new to the roads on London, it really can be aggressive, and you need to know what the traffic is doing, and be able to avoid dangerous situations. I'm pretty sure all of us here have been taken out by someone - ped, car whatever and are now twice as aware of the hazard that caused it. I have riden bikes all my life, and for the last 10 years in London. I see so many instances of dangerous cycling, and I don't mean riding pavements and jumping lights, as these sometimes can be ways out of situations, but total ignorance of how they are riding, what the traffic is doing and how to carry themselves amidst the traffic. My heart goes out to the family of the casualy today, I just went to the funeral of a friend who was killed skydiving last weekend.

training for cyclists pose a better safety margins than training HGV drivers, to teach cyclists to be more waries of HGV, even if the HGV is driven perfectly well, it's still better to take safety precaution.

RIP to the Cyclist

Everyone is in a rush these days with little regard for their own or others safety

Alls I can say is I also ride a scooter . I have a full car, truck & motorbike license . How many cyclists have a decent knowledge of the rules of the road ?
Any Cyclist that runs a red etc IS AT FAULT
I believe anyone that undertakes is entirely at fault though there is a grey area with cyclists due to their relatively slow speed & a vehicle that overtakes a cyclist & then turns left should take notice of what they have overtaken ..... it doesnt always happen

Trucks & buses do have blind spots ...... stay the hell out of them

Trucks will never be banned from central London as they are the lifeline of businesses .

I am both a cyclist and driver and see both sides to .
Recently whilst driving I was undertaken by a cyclist as I was just turning left into my road hence in my blind spot and having indicated far in advance There was almost a collision only hearing the cylist shouting did I know they were there.
If you do undertake when someone is turning left you will not always be seen as at that point you are likely to be in their blind spot .
I agree with LPG just wait be patient . be safe all !! Both drivers and cyclists
RIP x

The pointing fingers at bad cyclist is getting a bit tedious. How do you know you have not pissed off someone today?

Look after yourself, excel at what you do and set a good example that is all you need to worry about.

You cannot control others.

Bill, I'd be happy to sit down with assist with media strategy if you need it. I can help pull out some contacts on the nationals who will be interested in pushing this.

This whole HGV situation is out of control and something needs to be done.

Mr Foxx I'd be happy to lend a hand here, i have several plans so cunning you could brush your teeth with them!

Terrible news. Dying would be bad, dying on the way to work doing something you'd probably rather not be doing would suck. I'd have thought some of the big corporate companies would get involved in a safe cycling advertising scheme, I know Google who have their offices in Buckingham Palace Road are very pro staff cycling to work, and many of the buildings I go into have invested in cycle racks in their car parks.

Terrible news. Dying would be bad, dying on the way to work doing something you'd probably rather not be doing would suck. I'd have thought some of the big corporate companies would get involved in a safe cycling advertising scheme, I know Google who have their offices in Buckingham Palace Road are very pro staff cycling to work, and many of the buildings I go into have invested in cycle racks in their car parks.

i agree...

One of the problems with saying that London should have more cycle lanes is that there's simply no room. This city is well over a thousand years old and was built when the biggest traffic on it was the size of a wagon and cart. It's in the last 100 years that motorised traffic has become the norm, and trying to fit articulated lorries into a space that was designed for horses means that there's going to be problems.

The idea to ban HGV's in the city is a good one.

People do undertake, but let's not forget that the cycle lanes at traffic lights encourage this behaviour. While it might be naiive, if a new cyclist sees that it's acceptable to undertake where traffic is controlled, then it's understandable that they might believe it's also acceptable to do so on the open road.

I also don't believe that cyclists are 'more often than not' the ones in the wrong. The number of times, every day, that people turn left without indicating, or even looking, is staggering.

Any way you look at it, one death is too many.

The number of times, every day, that people turn left without indicating, or even looking, is staggering.

This happens far too often. People are getting so lazy and it really frustrates me when they assume that I know they're going to turn left just because they're in the left lane. How much effort is needed to move that little lever down a notch??

This city is well over a thousand years old and was built when the biggest traffic on it was the size of a wagon and cart.

London is a town - not a city (or strictly speaking several small towns). Nothing about London makes it feel like a city....

True though: the roads are designed for horse and cart - definitely not bendy busses or HGV's.

the vast size of London that make it felt like a city? commuting 11 miles from Wimbledon to Clerkenwell does make it feel like a city!

the vast size of London that make it felt like a city? commuting 11 miles from Wimbledon to Clerkenwell does make it feel like a city!

It's vast, but it's still a town. Design-wise London is pretty much like any other UK town... Coventry, York, Newcastle...only much much bigger.

Hmm, European cities with good roads have all (or mostly) had dictators: Berlin, Lisbon, Budapest, Rome etc. Coincidence? Now I'm not advocation - just sayin'.

they were designed and built as a city, while London evolved, look at Washington D.C. for example (in term of built as a city first instead of a small village that grow over time).

That's odd.. "City of London".. right outside my door..

The city's core, the ancient http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_London

Kinky.

Hmm, European cities with good roads have all (or mostly) had dictators: Berlin, Lisbon, Budapest, Rome etc. Coincidence? Now I'm not advocation - just sayin'.

Berlin, Budapest & Rome, many other continental cities also massively rebuilt and redesigned after being flattened in WWII. London escaped that fate for the most part.

Going back to banning HGVs from London; I doubt this could be done without viable alternatives.

The (formerly) British Rail trains could run all night, bringing stuff into London, but you know what, even the Post Office gets cost savings from using HGVs, and so would all other major users.

The London Waterways/Canals could be brought back into use, as originally it did stretch unbroken to Birmingham (correct me if I am wrong).

Many years ago, London was gridlocked with horse and carts, and hence technology enabled more to be carried in less journeys. We can't have less freight coming into London, as this includes food and clothes, and we can't live on less of at least the former.

I'm all for change. I find HGVs to be the dangerous, and the drivers are under such time pressures, that they often lack the sleep and breaks that legislation has called for. Inevitably, there will be accidents. I believe that the governments (national and local) are responsible for every accident and death of cyclists and pedestrians by HGV.

I'll be a willing party to any serious action that calls for change.

Maybe there should be clearer guidelines for HGV use, pertaining to city driving, and even for cyclists, to acknowledge awareness of proper safety in cycling near HGVs also. Like in relationships, it is hardly ever just all one party's fault.

the evening standard appears to be launching a safer cycling campaign. good on them I say. a good balanced article here and it's a pity to see how bad cyclists reputation is in the comments.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23560529-details/Protect%20us%20cyclists%20from%20the%20devil's%20transport/article.do?expand=true#StartComments

in the paper they described it as a safer cycling campaign, so hopefully they will be spreading awareness across london. there will be opportunities to do media stuff with them if we can think of some good ideas

A good article on cycling in London, for a change. She is especially right about this bit
I'm amazed at the number of cyclists I see undertaking lorries on the way toward junctions, oblivious to the fact they are in the driver's blind spot. There's little point policing lorry drivers if we don't look out for ourselves.
But TfL needs to take responsibility for the death rate too. Feeder lanes at junctions with advanced stop lines — green cycle boxes to you and me — may be making things worse. They give the bike rider a false sense of safety, leading them directly into the path of a turning lorry.
Two of the recent deaths happened where roads are marked in this way.

Hi I'm new to this forum and wanted to start a new thread really but am unable to until I've been on here 48 hours and posted 5 times.
Basically what I wanted to suggest was that, in the wake of the recent cycling tragedies, we should bombard Transport For London and anyone else who matters with our videos of bad driving and blackspots we come across regularly. I simply rubber banded my mobile to my handlebars.
Well, here are a couple of videos I recorded on Upper Thames Street last week and we all know how dangerous it is on this stretch of road.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=d9k2cXgwdIw
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RAgDpdJ4Y00&feature=related
Thanks for looking.

Shocking. Have to say.....

I agree.

Hi I'm new to this forum and wanted to start a new thread really but am unable to until I've been on here 48 hours and posted 5 times.
Basically what I wanted to suggest was that, in the wake of the recent cycling tragedies, we should bombard Transport For London and anyone else who matters with our videos of bad driving and blackspots we come across regularly. I simply rubber banded my mobile to my handlebars.
Well, here are a couple of videos I recorded on Upper Thames Street last week and we all know how dangerous it is on this stretch of road.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=d9k2cXgwdIw
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=RAgDpdJ4Y00&feature=related
Thanks for looking.

You ride like a dickhead. Find another route to work.

^ harsh... but fair.

I had hoped you rode in that way purely to highlight some issues about the non-entity that is Upper Thames St cycle lanes.

If you do that every day, you're a bit spazzy in the brainbox. Granted, you move forward quicker than all the 4+ wheelers, but as recommended by adoubletap, please find another route before some coked-up cunt in a builder's lorry wipes you out.