2008-09-24 - Rider Down/Fatality, Holborn

We could all circle town hall over and over again. Nice and peacfull. As it would affectively be a protest I think the meadia would turn up. Would be good to raise awarness. We will also need to make it clear that it is for all cyclests and not just SS and fixed.

watch out there's a cabbie badge number 99997 he's a freak, was going along slowly beside him & he nudged me pushing me along i almost went down, i didn't start yelling cause that's dumb, anyone else had this in london? i've been abused by cabbies a lot after 2 years of missions around town these guy's are so rude.

i should have dumbied it falling of & law suited the guy!!

also watch out at junctions as drivers decide to pull out there "without" looking, i wrapped around a white van bumper last week in conduit st/savile row. was ok got up & cycled off again with grazed ankle & knee, could have been a lot worse though.

I'd happily donate to the cards etc. As there are enough of us, it'll be a few quid each, anyone work for/know a printers who can get cheap prints w/ laminate?

Already got designs rolling round my head, will throw something up later.

Do we need a new thread just for this? Prehaps VB can make it a sticky so everyone can get involved.

this is really sad, +1 for the spoke cards, i will happily donate and carry a handfull in my bag. just yesterday i saw at least 2 cyclists undertaking hgvs and those long buses.

Yep, I've said it before but I see it all the time. I'm beginning to think there should be some kind of cycle test before you're allowed on the streets. RIP to the person killed today, it really is very sad but if there is a left turn at the junction you are waiting at with a lorry, you get the fuck out of the way. I've seen so many cyclists sitting underneath the cab door as a lorry is about to turn left. I saw one of those cyclists beware stickers on an HGV today, i am so careful around them now.

I don't know if spoke-cards are the answer. There are around 500 000 cyclists in London. Much better to use the media to get the message out.

I propose that we write a letter to the Mayor, and copy it to the media. It should get some results.

I am thinking something like:

left-turning lorries major hazard
cycle lanes extremely dangerous as they put cyclists in wrong place
whole LCN needs to reconsidered
more pressure exerted on operators

and possibly copies to Road Transport Minister

after those two hipcup's its off my bike for a while getting confidence back.

the awareness cards are a great idea, do it bro.

First off condolences to the family involved.
This is an area where we all need to come together, something that shows how silly the courier/fakenger/commuter differences really are.
Bill has been doing great, and often unappreciated, work on this for years and the HGV blind spots diagrams need to be seen (and understood) by everyone who cycles. If you have not looked at them on MT, DO IT NOW. No doubt many of us had the same thought as BMMF: we could get active and organised and hand out to other cyclists the information we have which might save their lives.
It would be terrific if life saving information was given out with every bike sold in London; if Evans were to agree to this it would be a great first step. But I can imagine the hassle that would take, the difficulty in getting a large chain to act. Bike shops may also not see it as in their short term interest to draw attention to the dangers of cycling since those dangers are already one of the things that deter people from cycling. They may also not wish to be associated with a group like ours where many riders ride without a front break and where there is a 'riding drunk' thread. But it is worth a try.
Once again, collective and determined long term action by all of us is the only thing that will produce results.
All of which is about what we can do to save our own lives and the problem is that, like the helmet debate, it can make it sound as if cycling is more dangerous than it really is and that if we die it is our own fault. There is the other side to all this; we should not be sharing road space with HGVs and the HGV drivers who's careless driving kills cyclists (not every case but some) should not be getting away with a fine of a few hunded pounds.
Ride safe all of you.

I think the spoke cards combined with a few other options are the way to go.

RIP
Condolences to those involved.

What about challenging the HGV makers to have turn indicators all down the side of their vehicle? A rider thinking a vehicle is going straight, may not see the indicator change at the back, as by that time they are effectively near the middle of the vehicle.

EDIT: Pressure could be applied through politicians (booo!) or directly to major companies like Sainsbury's, as they hate negative publicity "Major grocery [insert any here] delivery lorry kills defenseless cyclist".

I can't believe how common these threads are. Each one brings me down hard.

+1 to the campaigning idea, I'm wiling to contribute time and money (at least after the 27th when I get paid!)

There's a separate thread about this now.

Terrible news again.
Strange to be called by people and asked if you are OK which is a definite sign that these deaths are happening way too often.

dear me, a BBC news exclusive described the accident, but focused more on the traffic chaos it caused !! wtf ?!

it really is so sad, but this type of accident, as everyone has just said, lorry and an undertaking cyclist, is just so common, too common.

something should be done, but cyclists don't pay road taxes so the government don't give a fuck. bastards.

i myself this morning nearly got extinguished by a fucking mental bendy bus driver, he overtook me and mid way,pushed me right into the pavement, the twat, on Park Lane.

He was either unaware or just plainly uneducated in cyclists awarness. But this is what it's all about, making and maintaining the awareness of lorry drivers of cyclists, especially now in the dawn of the cycling era.

It will not do, to plainly add extra mirrors and signs to lorries. Or anything else.
Lorry drivers need to know how precarious turning a corner can be and that they could singlehandedly kill someone.
Frankly i don't think lorry drivers at large realise this at all.

How about setting up a website with the MT images on and including the URL on the spoke cards. It could also be used to bring awareness to other cycling safety issues and have links No10 petitions or examples of letters that can be printed and sent to MPs which I believe will be far harder for them to ignore.

The slogan on the spoke cards will draw attention but does it alone get the message across to people who don't know the dangers of trucks?

I don't know if spoke-cards are the answer.
I was actually wondering; how do the general public (the ones that politicians really listen to), not we niche groups, know about, or are able to read a card within a bike's wheels, that is revolving?

Yes, cyclists will pay attention, but do the public notice that sort of thing? If they don't easily notice, is the card then fulfilling its desighn function?

I'm trying to think like a non-cyclist......not trying to rumple anyone's feathers.

+1 for BB's media exposure suggestions.

Bill - do we need to involve London Cycling Campaign and any relavant cycle clubs to add clout?
and when you say we... can we nominate you? we can back it with signatures?

Both TFL and London.gov fail to have a page dedicated to cycle safety in London? We need to push Boris to get a consistent and clear not on cycle safety across all media - the two sites listed, handed out at critical mass and in all bike shops.

There is this one but, to be honest, it's pretty shit. Four bullets down in the Things to watch out for section (at the very bottom) is not highlighting the dangers enough.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/9063.aspx

I was sorry to witness the aftermath of this accident in Holborn this morning, I sat in traffic watching them clean the blood away.
Its sad to both witness these events and to hear stories of cyclists getting mown down every day. The majority of us do ride safely, but all too often are not given adequate consideration by other road users (ruthless irate taxi drivers in particular). It has to be said though - don't stick your neck out by undertaking for the sake of a couple of seconds advantage, it's not worth it.

I am a cyclist, but in the main I commute to work on my scooter. It annoys me how other scooter riders enroach on the bicycle boxes ahead of traffic, with their stinky engines blowing fumes in to your faces. I have seen a big lack of consideration from motorbike and scooter riders towards cyclists in general. I definately plan to switch from my scooter to push bike, the benfits are great, but I do worry from a safety aspect about being unable to get out of the way of other traffic quickly and safely.
What is it going to take to make people consider the safety of other road users, especially those most vulnerable?
London can be a souless living hell to live and work in sometimes. Ride safely.

There is this one but, to be honest, it's pretty shit. Four bullets down in the Things to watch out for section (at the very bottom) is not highlighting the dangers enough.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/roadusers/cycling/9063.aspx

i couldn't find that? good work, but man that's shit!

It's not the truckers fault. There are more inept cyclists than HGV drivers. if you have ever driven anything with a decent long wheel base you appreciate there is a skill involved

Spoke cards aren't the way to go, but BMMF is right - that MT article on blindspots is alarmingly clear.
**The graphic needs to be put on the back of HGV's/Busses **along with the "you can't see me i can't see you" and "don't over take"

+1

sticker kill two birds with one stones, well in a way, if the cyclist saw it, then he/she more aware of the HGV and choose not to undertake it while considering if the truck have that sticker the driver would (perhaps?) already aware of the cyclist.

I have seen a big lack of consideration from motorbike and scooter riders towards cyclists in general.

I have seen quite the opposite