Rapha, nice but a bit pricey?

i just bought a pair this morning as a matter of fact

"This has to be one of the most hand-wringingly middle-class threads in Utopia."

Guess middle class is what I am :/

only buy what you need, this is easy for poor people....very difficult for the middle classes.

check out www.churchofeuthanasia.org

            The One Commandment:
            ["Thou shalt not procreate"](http://churchofeuthanasia.org/snuffit3/prayer.html)

            The Four Pillars:
            [suicide](http://ash.spaink.net/) ·                 [abortion](http://churchofeuthanasia.org/snuffit4/abortion.html)
            [cannibalism](http://churchofeuthanasia.org/e-sermons/butcher.html) ·               [sodomy](http://churchofeuthanasia.org/snuffit2/lifewater.html)

Save the planet kill yourself

this is quite interesting:

http://www.vhemt.org/

advocating making the decision to not have children to slow population growth..

makes sense in theory, not so sure in practice..

only buy what you need, this is easy for poor people....very difficult for the middle classes.

the middle classes are far worse that the true upper classes who often wander around their stately homes in old clothes using things brought by their ancestors instead of buying new stuff all the time.
the bourgeoise think nothing of buying plasma tellys and 3 series bmw's on credit.
the proles can't afford decent food but still have sky tv and £6 packs of fags every day.

that shits fucked up.

Something I can wholly get behind. The people that really WANT kids are generally the last people that I believe should have them.

heh heh!! utter cobblers....;) inserting "I believe" to qualify it doesn't make it make any more sense.. maybe regroup the sentence a bit it might work - it might be more accurate to say "some of the people who really want kids are the last people who should have them" or "some of the people who have kids are the last people who should have them". It's still not saying much. I think you're being swayed by the emptier vessels in our society making the most noise - there's plenty good parents out there. I don't think your statement works as a generalisation at all.

I'm not sure I'd know what my move was going to be in these days and times though, in attempting to raise my kid in a way I believed was right. It's very hard for a parent to be the most significant influence over a child's development these days - particularly if you don't buy into the crap that society will have you believe is the norm. And before you tag that desire to be the singular most important influence in your child's upbringing as an arrogant authoritarian move - who you gonna leave him/her wide open to be influenced by? Piers Morgan and Gary Linekar?

^

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2006/jul/02/comment.internationalaidanddevelopment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dtbn9zBfJSs

that guy's creepy. I don't like his jeans. The cut's awful and they've faded to a horrible mid blue due to the wrong washing cycles.

I'm entitled to voice my opinion in any way that I see fit. Including but not limited to using scentances that you don't find to be particularly inline with your views. If you have a valida question feel free to debate. Telling me that my view is, "Utter cobblers" is both rude and very arrogant.

Your opinion is only your opinion. Not fact.

I was only teasing you dude - not trying to be rude or very arrogant. The "utter cobblers" was followed by a wink, not a frown, and was there to acknowledge I was contesting your view. But look at your sentence again and it doesn't convey anything of the true picture. There are loads of couples who really really want to have kids and would make wonderful parents. Meanwhile I also wonder how life works when you see some of the people who do have kids. But I also see parents with kids who are doing a good job, regardless of their means or outlook. Your comment is selling a lot of good people - trying to raise their kids in the best way they know how - very short. Whether you think anyone should have kids at all is not the point you're making here, you're sort of saying "most people who want kids are the very people who shouldn't have them."

I'm countering that opinion you posted with another cos as I was reading yours I didn't agree with it.

Your moral values are very different to mine. What you view as "doing a good job" falls significantly short of my standards.

I'm not disputing that there are some good parents around but there are an awful lot of people who feel compelled to have a child becuase that's what they should do or were born to do or what their friends are doing. These people I find abhorent.

Having a child is a commitment that I feel many people take too light heartedly.

Your moral values are very different to mine. What you view as "doing a good job" falls significantly short of my standards.

I've no idea how you would demonstrate your proof for either of these claims. You know nothing of my personal views on parenting or parenting standards, or indeed the intricacies of my moral framework. The first is a supposition based on your own moral values, not mine; the second is complete conjecture on your part.

Anyway, thread derailment in progress...

no, freecycle is about as ethical as it gets

+1 for Freecycle.

Remember sometimes when donating something small/cheap like a book, people used to come from all over London just to collect it.

But is wise to make a new e-mail address to use with Freecycle, or your mailbox will be flooded with 100+ e-mails a day!

You've commented time and again about how our morals are different. I'd say that's a fair basis for demonstration the first point.
Secondly. As my views of doing a good job are intrisically linked with my own ethical code, something which you do not adhere too, your standards would fall short of mine. I'm not saying that you would be a bad parent FFS, just that you'd raise a chiold very differently to how I would.

Now stop being an argumentative cunt and go to bed.

Jesus you guys still talking about the bloody Rapha scarf?

I guess no one here is stupid enough to work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, and then go to C*nd*r and say *"yes i don't care, please just take my £55 and let me buy the new Rapha scarf, i want it so bad!!"*

(but i might be wrong) ;)

Having a child is a commitment that I feel many people take too light heartedly.

Ain't that the truth...

You've commented time and again about how our morals are different. I'd say that's a fair basis for demonstration the first point.
Secondly. As my views of doing a good job are intrisically linked with my own ethical code, something which you do not adhere too, your standards would fall short of mine. I'm not saying that you would be a bad parent FFS, just that you'd raise a chiold very differently to how I would.

all conjecture - I'm not passing on this one. You can't say things that are horseshit and expect them to go unchallenged every time. Look at this all carefully and it's just you presuming things about me. I may have commented you have a different way of looking at life, or that one or two of your personal ideals are different (eg veganism) but I don't believe morals have ever been discussed. And it's extremely high horsey of you to make a call that my standards would fall short of yours - how daft is that and how self-righteous?

"I'm not saying you would be a bad parent FFS" - .. I don't believe I said you were saying I would be.

"You'd raise a child very differently to how I would " - you can't possibly know this.

Come on Object, stop making sweeping comments which paint speculation as givens.

Now stop being an argumentative cunt and go to bed.

I'll go to bed when I like. I'm a grown man, patronising prick.

uh oh

^ Are you two married to each other?^

well if they are married to each other i don't think they will be having children

I don't get it. Liverpool's manager selling over priced head scarfs? What's the world coming to? Total cunt!

@MrSmith
Saves us another Terry...

"You'd raise a child very differently to how I would " - you can't possibly know this.

jim jams, you and I probably have different ideas about raising children.
If I were going to have a bet here, then next months wages would go on the accuracy of object's statement.

hehe.

I'm only responding in kind. But true, I'm in a bit of an inflexible mood this morning. Probably what another night of five hours' sleep does for yer :d