Commuting Distances...

I'm involved in the masterplanning of a new city in South Korea, as part of an international architectural ideas competition held by the government there. Currently we are at a schematic design stage. I have volunteered to research and oversee all transportation infrastructure aspects of our proposal. Although there will many modes of transport to consider, I am naturally keen to promote the bicycle as a primary, if not the primary, mode of local transport, particularly as the site (which is similar in size to central london) is comprised of flat, reclaimed land.

As a first study I am looking to show the effectiveness of the bicycle in getting from home to work, i.e. commuting. I want to establish a 'radius' that represents a realistic distance that someone on a bike would be prepared to travel to get to work. I'm sure there are plenty of people on here who commute or even ride for a living, who might be able to suggest how I might go about figuring this out. I realise that you lot are all ultra-fit and dedicated bicycle aficionados who wouldn't break a sweat over several hundred miles, but I need to find a realistic average distance which can be used in considering the layout and relationship of housing and industry (whatever that might be). The culture out there is of course very different and 'commuting' is far more prevalent, even if they don't call it that, so there are many other factors to consider.

I thought this would be a good starting point.

Any input would be great. Also let me know of any good sources (websites?) of information on cycling in the city or of good precedents of successful cycling initiatives in other cities, or of cities that you think might be useful to look at (Amsterdam etc.).

Thanks very much and no jokes about short legs!

Josh.

building a city from scratch sounds bonkers! I'd love to be in on that action.

On average I ride about 12 miles a day. 6 miles there, 6 miles back. It's easy peasy and takes me half the time that a tube would take.

Unfortunately I don't know any websites for town planning/cycle planning

When i first started cycle commuting a few years back 5km seemed very daunting. Now I do about 13km each way and it's fine... It's just convincing those damned koreans to take that first step.

BTW you have an amazing job - like playing SimCity for real....

I think anything upto 10 -12 miles each way on well managed clear routes is doable by most people. If you are keen you can clearly do more. With good integrated transport system this can clearly be much more.

EDIT: By most poeple I mean healthy 20 - 50 year old who are not coach potatoes but not necessarily ultra fit.

If you look up the Urban Design Compendium it'll have some info. But i've had the same issue on a masterplan i've been working on in the Thames Gateway. What i did was consider the average speed of a little old lady cycling and drew cycling-bands per time - 10 minute cycle, 5 minute cycle etc. If you want to do it properly though you'd have to change the average speed in accordance to the topography and the gardient.

Whatever you do, remember - cycling lanes are mostly bad as they breed vehicular ownership over the road (except for major strategic links where they are good)

having spent some time in shanghai recently, perhaps i can have a bit of input.
i asked a colleague there how long it took him to get to work by car, and it was something like 2 hours for a 20 mile journey. I told him that I cycle commute to work in London 15 miles each way. He looked at me as if I had two heads.
So 15 miles is too much. At least it was for that guy...
I did see lots of bikes there but they were similar to the amsterdam shoppers, and i think were used for relatively short distances.
good luck...

I think anything over 12ish miles is for the keen cyclist, as opposed to a commuter.

Mine is 9miles each way :)

I was going to say around 10 miles maximum for the commuter, with between 3 and 5 miles being a sweet spot.

the landscape will probably be a series of low-lying large or small islands connected by bridges, to give a rough idea. We will encourage low energy and very low-density development, grounded in sustainable agricultural industry. There will I'm sure be generous designated cycles lanes, as well as river buses and railway links.

I have a 6.5 mile trip each way. I do it in about 20 mins, and regularly beat my flatmate on his vespa. It's pretty easy going apart from Dog Kennel hill, but then I wasn't born with these thighs...
My Dad's a cartogropher and has recently completed a series of maps for NHS trusts showing cycle routes between their sites. They got three route options, avoiding traffic to various degrees, and also gave the journey times for different speed riders - 10, 15 and 20 kph. They came out looking very simple and easy to use, and as far as I know the nhs peeps loved them.
I don't think you can design a cities' transport system solely with those that cycle everywhere in mind though. Much as that would be nice it's unrealistic and more people would benefit from some sort of integrated public transport and cycling network.

Sustrans are pretty good, bit I guess you'll know all about that if you go about designing cities in your spare time!

http://www.sustrans.org.uk/default.asp?sID=1090834683408

Done to death on every bike forum..
http://www.bikeradar.com/commuting/forums/viewtopic.php?t=12521340&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=&sid=526549eb0f97199d8d6285df902aaabc

VERY low-density development = everything is VERY far from everything else. Does it not make a lot more sense to focus everything within a circle of 5mile radius so there would be practically no use for cars? (only bikes, fixed)

Low density also means that you don't achieve the critical mass to use centralised heat and power systems etc making the whole thing very "unsustainable"...and it also means that people interact less with each other, affecting the sense of community affecting the sense of ownership etc etc etc...

sorry - i forgot, this isn't an urban design forum.

Agree with the comments\My commute is 11 miles / 50 minutes each way - 2-3 times a week at the moment...
I know, I know.. HTFU. but without showers its a grim proposition to do it every day!
Will the new S. Korean buildings have shower/changing facilities?

Superprecise I'm involved in the masterplanning of a new city in South Korea, and not even you can stop me Mister Bond.

I think you are all over estimating.

Realistically the average person will only consider riding for a less than 5km trip somewhere.
that is about 3 miles or less.

Anything more and you will probbaly get a sweat up.
and so in most jobs you may need to shower afterwards.

I think it won't be far. For your average folk nothing over 20mins / 3miles - otherwise more people would cycle here.
You probably want bands - 1k away 60% folk will cycle, 3k away 30% people will cycle, 5k away 10% etc (or something...)

Dunno how much it rains in SK, but covered cycle paths would get a few more folk out as well (seeing as you're planning it from scratch).

Currently do 13 miles each way (3000 miles a year). I think Shower facilities are more important at your destination.

on the short commute its 6miles each way, on the long about 9miles each way, try and cycle to work 3-4 days a week, and there are shower facilities here as well.
I don't usually think of the commute in terms of distance usually time, it takes me half an hour to get to work on the short route, forty five on the long, forty mins to get into central london from shepherds bush, about an hour to get from shepherds bush to hoxton, you get the picture. Think most people don't mind being on a bike for half an hour or so, obviously, depending on your level of fitness, the distance you travel in that time will vary. As you get fitter as we show, being on a bike for longer periods becomes no discomfort either.
If you get the idea across that it doesn't take any longer to bike it, and is in fact quicker than doing it any other way people will take it up, also you'll have to sort out possibly communal areas for bike maintenance, nothing worse than people getting the cycling bug, weather turns and bikes are left to disintegrate outside, and no point in having great roads areas to ride in if you can't fix a puncture. Also bike parking and security needs to be arranged, you're not going to ride anywhere if your bike isn't there for you to get back on.

I had to transport the rollers and kit by van to Imperial college today, my sat nav said 7.5 miles...it took an hour and 10 mins...and on the way back at 3.30pm (not even rush hour) 1h20m....what's my average speed????

about 6-7 mph on the way there.

slightly less for the return journey.

I do about 9 miles each way.. most people where i work use their bike, or the public transport system (and that is bus, where i work).
I should say that i live in Copenhagen, where cycling is done by almost everyone.

I think the distance will be influenced by the flat-ness of the terrain as well, keep that in mind :)

// Hans

i do about 7.5miles each way

AS cornelius state showers are important. I wish over here there was some law requireing any company which employs over 5 -10 people say is required to have a shower cirtain shower employee ratio of say one shower to 10 -15 people minmum. So many places don't have showers and that make all but the shortest of commutes a challenge for many people.

16km each way, about 10 miles, I do that in less than 30 mins on a folding bike, but then I'm the 'energizer bunny' innit..;)

Last year, when I lived in Ashtead, I commuted to the City every day by bike for a few months which was 18 miles each way at 55 minutes (I used a road bike). At that distance, you are slightly faster than the combined train/tube journey. The time is more or less exactly the same if you include shower time/kit change. You get fit like a marine but you fall asleep at your desk and if you don't shower your cellmates complain about your stink.

Now, I commute every day by bike from Camden to Waterloo, about 3 or 4 miles. It takes 7-9 minutes on a roadbike (slightly slower on the way back because it's uphill). On a fixed it's more like 10-12 minutes (but it's way more fun). The tube time is 15 minutes on a good day, not including getting to/from the station.