Lemond Fillmore - chainline issues!

Hi,

As some of you may recall I posted on here regarding chainline issues with the Genesis Flyer when running a fixed sprocket on the flip-flop hub.

I sold the Flyer, it was too small anyway... and have just bought a Lemond Fillmore.

Lovely ride, love it so far, but again, I am having the same problem. Brick Lane stuck on a fixed sprocket for me and the chainline is off!

It's not quite as bad as the Flyer was, but it's still off. I've measured the distance from centre of hub to teeth and there's at least 1cm difference between fixed and freewheel sides.

I'm beginning to think that when manufacturers spec flip-flop hubs on freewheel bikes, they don't think about chainline on the fixed side. It certainly seems that way! It does seem weird that a flip-flop hub would give different chainlines. I thought the whole point was that you could quickly switch between them!

I'm tempted to sod the fixed thing and just run a freewheel until I need a new rear hub.

Anyone noticed this? Am I just being picky?!

John

off which way? do you have space for spacers? are there spacers that can be removed? otherwise a different length bb could solve it.

I know it seems silly on a fixed wheel, but it could be dished to compensate?
You measured from the centre of the hub to the teeth and it differs by 1cm, is there the same difference if you measure from the locknuts to teeth?

Sorry, I meant Brixton Cycles! Seem great in there, very helpful!

Chainwheel further out than sprocket. Maybe not enough to be an issue, but it annoys me just the same! I'm sure it'll wear the chain more quickly.

Spacers are a bit of a hack - surely on a brand new bike you'd expect chainline to be correct on both sides?!

I notice the Langster comes with a fixed sprocket - how is chainline on this bike when running fixed?

provenrad I know it seems silly on a fixed wheel, but it could be dished to compensate?
You measured from the centre of the hub to the teeth and it differs by 1cm, is there the same difference if you measure from the locknuts to teeth?

Oops, it's 5mm out, not 1cm! However, 5mm out with both measurements!

Centre of Bottom Bracket - chainwheel teeth: 4.5cm

Centre of hub to freewheel teeth: 4.5cm

Centre of hub to fixed sprocket: 4cm.

Very strange - wouldn't you think they would be the same?

John

You sure?

That's a 45mm chainline.

Pretty sure!

Is that unusual?

more likely to be 42mm.

is the sprocket on the right way??

2007 langster chiainline was fine, bought it from Brixton cycles

try getting a EAI cog, the teeth stick out a couple of mm more....goldtecs use a 45mm chainline, and with a EAI it's closer

31trum try getting a EAI cog, the teeth stick out a couple of mm more....goldtecs use a 45mm chainline, and with a EAI it's closer

+1

I use an EAI on my Flyer and chainline is fine.

Just read this on another forum:

"There are a bunch of hubs that are designed around a ~45mm chainline so you can use the outer position on a road double, or the middle position of a mountain triple."

This makes sense. The crankset seems to be a double with just one chainring, not a true track setup.

Madison said as much when I queried this same problem with the Flyer.

I find it odd that they design bikes like this that only line up correctly on the freewheel side!

Try turning your sprocket around so the flange is on the other side. This should shift it 3-4 mm.

xroads - That wouldn't work - teeth are already in outmost orientation. Flipping would make it worse!

Interesting point about different brand sprockets. I thought there would have been some sort of standard! :-O

jhclare Hi,

I'm beginning to think that when manufacturers spec flip-flop hubs on freewheel bikes, they don't think about chainline on the fixed side. It certainly seems that way! It does seem weird that a flip-flop hub would give different chainlines. I thought the whole point was that you could quickly switch between them!

I'm tempted to sod the fixed thing and just run a freewheel until I need a new rear hub.

The hub isn't the problem - it's the fact that freewheels and fixed sprockets (apparently) have different chainlines. This problem will therefore occur with most track hubs, which are set up to give a 42mm chainline with a fixed sprocket. It seems, from your experiences, that freewheels give a different chainline. That would mean that the manufacturers of these bikes choose a bottom bracket axle which lines the chainring up with the freewheel, not the fixed side.

The way to solve it is to get a different length BB, not a new hub. Brixton Cycles are very helpful and will be happy to help you out and check the bike for you. They also do free labour for a year on bikes bought from them so could swap the BB for you if you want the chainline to work for fixed, not freewheel. Since new BBs cost about £15 this is a cheap fix.

If you want to fun fixed/free then I would get the chainline right for the fixed side, tolerate a wonky chainline on the fixed side and use a 3/32 chain with some flexibility to minimise the issue. Chainline is more important on fixed because the consequences of a dropped chain are worse.

Does the Phil Moore not run outboard bearings?

We need a Lemond owner: is there a docA in the house?

Momentum [quote]jhclare Hi,

I'm beginning to think that when manufacturers spec flip-flop hubs on freewheel bikes, they don't think about chainline on the fixed side. It certainly seems that way! It does seem weird that a flip-flop hub would give different chainlines. I thought the whole point was that you could quickly switch between them!

I'm tempted to sod the fixed thing and just run a freewheel until I need a new rear hub.

The hub isn't the problem - it's the fact that freewheels and fixed sprockets (apparently) have different chainlines. This problem will therefore occur with most track hubs, which are set up to give a 42mm chainline with a fixed sprocket. It seems, from your experiences, that freewheels give a different chainline. That would mean that the manufacturers of these bikes choose a bottom bracket axle which lines the chainring up with the freewheel, not the fixed side.

The way to solve it is to get a different length BB, not a new hub. Brixton Cycles are very helpful and will be happy to help you out and check the bike for you. They also do free labour for a year on bikes bought from them so could swap the BB for you if you want the chainline to work for fixed, not freewheel. Since new BBs cost about £15 this is a cheap fix.

If you want to fun fixed/free then I would get the chainline right for the fixed side, tolerate a wonky chainline on the fixed side and use a 3/32 chain with some flexibility to minimise the issue. Chainline is more important on fixed because the consequences of a dropped chain are worse.[/quote]

+1

Also I though the issue on the flyer ended up partly being a 1/8 track cog and a 3/32 chain and freewheel resulting in a problem.

if the fillmore runs a 1/8 chain i think the most pain free solution would be to get a 3/32 EAI cog. it'll shift the chainline on the hub and 3/32 would be more forgiving on it as well.

According to Madison, the fixed sprocket supplied with the Flyer was incorrectly included with the hub by the hub manufacturer. The Flyer is set up as 3/32 and the 1/8 cog simply won't work. Genesis "corrected" the problem by telling their dealers not to supply the cog with the bike, and later bikes were shipped without the cog.

Very annoying!

There must be a hub out there somewhere that compensates for the different chainlines between sides?! Sounds like the Langster hub is better. It would be nice just to alternate between the two sides and have correct chainline for each.

John

sorry to doubt you, but am just wondering how did you measure it up? i'm just finding it strange i've never heard anyone having problems with a fillmore. what hub is it on the fillmore? and how does the drivechain run? if it runs well i wouldn't bother.

I think I'm just very fussy! I expected a perfect line on both sides. Maybe other people have this "problem" but aren't as anal as me, or have never noticed it. It's not major, but it's there!

John

the fillmore does have outboard bearing cranks (bontrager). i've worked on a number of lemonds (set up fixed) and have never heard of or come across this issue. are there (too many) spacers on the driveside bb cup? (the hub in question should be a formula/iro/system ex/whatever the hell you want to call it)

kowalski Does the Phil Moore not run outboard bearings?

We need a Lemond owner: is there a docA in the house?

yes, in this house :)

i got a fillmore, went fixed after about 26 hours thanks to fgss docklands ride (rock on kids, it was great!) and haven't looked back. g/f then got the 2006 version (basically identical) off a secondhand forum thing from elsewhere on the net and i guess it's a match made in... anyway, i've not had any issues apart from the tyres. have done lots of riding and am absolutely loving it.

first PS: i don't know shit about bikes, i'm making it all up and haven't a clue what the chainline is, but i'm sure mine is fine!

second PS: kowalski, so how about another john snow session? although i'd suggest a thursday and that's taken by the lfgss xmas agm thing next thursday, so maybe i'll see you there?

third PS: i really want to get the coloring changed, i need to speak to andypancake.

fourth PS: i gotta drink less (or, at least, post less when i'm drinking!)

I just got it flipped back to freewheel side - chainline as good as perfect. Think I'll stick with it for now, I forgot that I quite like freewheeling(!)... good when you're tired and traffic busy - don't have to think too much... just remember to unclip at lights!

Would be interesting to see what percentage of this forum's membership ride fixed and freewheel! I'm guessing mostly fixed!

5mm?

fuck thats nothign - i wouldn't eeven worry about it. I Imagine mine Chain is out by at least that.
its 'looks' pretty straight to me.