In the news

The very baseline issue here is that the cost of non-compliance should not be extrajudicial killing (except maybe in situations of extreme risk of harm / death).

The contentious part seems to be whether people believe Kaba was trying to get away or whether there was real risk of harm / death to the officers. It might have been scary for the officers but I'm not convinced it reached a threshold that lethal force was required.

It's pretty obvious why there are armed response units. I think rather there's a disagreement on whether they acted proportionally or lawfully, or whether infact it was an abuse of police powers and a miscarriage of justice.

And you know what ...it's possible to say all this AND think crooks who do bad things are bad. Go figure

Do you believe that people should stop for the police, who have clearly identified themselves?

Do you believe the police should execute people that don't?

To derail a bit, I wonder what Gove thinks about his ex-wife writing today about Amanda Abingdon (it’s not supportive)

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1lg54y71r2o

Armed police to get anonymity during firearms trials

I’m sorry if I can’t find it within myself to lose sleep over the shooting of a notorious gang’s hitman.

Don’t worry the the 67 will sort it all out.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/met-officer-chris-kaba-shooting-gang-bounty-martyn-blake-justice-b1189514.html
FFS!

I don't think anyone is asking you to. The indignation is around the unnecessary killing of an(other) unarmed, at the time unknown, young Black man.

First they come for the notorious gang's hitmen ...

Someone being killed by the police doesn't become ok because they're a bad guy. I don't think anyone's suggesting that he deserved to die at the hands of police. On the other hand, itdoes make sense that the community's response might be tempered by some knowledge of exactly who they'd lost, but then hagiography of those who really don't deserve it seems like a regular British hobby. Look at the response to Raoul Moat's death.

All of that is separate from the analysis of the specific incident that led to his death. His character prior to that doesn't come into it if the police genuinely hadn't identified him at the point he was stopped and ultimately shot.

Question, has anyone posting in here on this police killing actually read the transcript of the trial, with all of the witness and expert evidence?

If not, why not?

The very baseline issue here is that the cost of non-compliance should not be extrajudicial killing (except maybe in situations of extreme risk of harm / death).

As a general principle, I agree. Some of the incidents you hear about people being shot in the USA due to not following police orders that they don't understand/hear, or that are actually impossible to follow, are horrific.

As you say, the question is whether the police acted proportionately in this specific situation. I'd say that not all "non-compliance" is equal. This doesn't sound like just not stopping, it was someone who had effectively been stopped attempting to break free by using the car as a weapon. Add to that the fact that the reason the car had been stopped was due to its involvement in a previous shooting and the actions of the police start to sound less unreasonable.

I haven't because I am not upset by the outcome of the trial, not worth spending so much time on it.
RIP Audi driver.

He probably thinks she's just doing her job trying to make a living.

I mean what other choice does she have?

I though an interesting stat was;

Armed police carry out c.18,000 operations a year, Popo only fired 4 shots in that year.

Some year there are zero shots fired.

Quote taken from a former Gold team commander on the News Agents.

On top of that, they already get to rehearse their statements prior to them being recorded, following these sort of incidents, and are allowed to confer amongst themselves.

Meaning that whatever testimony they give, it is the most supportive testimony for their case that could be conceived of.

That's been on form for the last couple of days.

, and are allowed to confer amongst themselves.

Have you got a citation for that because the IOPC statutory guidance seems to say the opposite.
They’ve also got to provide a personal account of the incident before they go off duty so not sure where the rehearsals comes into play.

If you want to understand the attitudes of the black community you also need to consider death in custody stats. There are many notorious cases. E.g. Smiley Culture died when police were in his home searching it. They allowed him to go to his kitchen, where he died from a single stab wound to the heart. No witnesses. https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2011/mar/17/smiley-culture-stabbed-heart-postmortem

Question, has anyone posting in here on this police killing actually read the transcript of the trial, with all of the witness and expert evidence?

Got a link?

Smiley Culture stabbed himself in his own kitchen, one of the chief concerns was there wasn’t enough police restraint of him as he was allowed to go into his own kitchen. I’m not aware of any suggestion that the police killed him or injured him in any way.

The verdict;

David Victor Emmanuel took his own life.
Although the tragic events of 15ht March 2011 were unforeseeable, given one officer the responsibility for supervising Mr Emmanuel and at the same time completing the premises search book was a contributing factor in his death

That ties in with my recollection of the reported events.

I’m not aware of any suggestion that the police killed him

Ask around in Brixton. There is disbelief that anyone could have killed themselves in that way, and that the guy would have rather died than serve a few years in prison

Edit: also incredulity that police would have let him go in the kitchen alone when they were searching for drugs, because he could have had drugs hidden there

incredulity that police would have let him go in the kitchen alone

Maybe they should read the inquest papers then as he was already seated in a kitchen/diner with a cop, who was doing paperwork, when he got up and obtained. knife, from an unknown location.

Where does it say that please? Every account I have read says he was alone.

https://www.gardencourtchambers.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/old_site/File/Inquest%20Verdict%20-%20David%20Victor%20Emmanuel.pdf

At the time of the injury Mr Emmanuel was in the kitchen – diner,
under the supervision of a isngle officer with responsibility for completing the search
book. Unobserved, Mr Emmanuel stood up from his chair and obtained the knife
from an unknown location.