The fall of the Tory party

Johnson got rid of many, others resigned in discust

The rest lost their seats at the last election

Badenoch is deranged, Jenrick is a cunt pretending to be deranged.

Jenrick has so far come across as quite exceptionally corrupt even by standards of today's politicians, though.

And stupid enough to give sound bites about the Chagos Islands transfer completely blaming Starmer, when his party (under Cleverly and Cameron) had been responsible for the negotiation process.

Even the spouse of David Frost (chief Brexit negotiator) had been the lead official negotiator for the foreign office on the Chagos treaty with Mauritius, so it wasn't exactly a secret within the Tory party?

So, whoever wins, this all plays out with the Tory party being consumed by Farage and we live out our own Trumpian nightmare (with added Lee Anderson)?

So, nothing changes and it's more of the same then!

Optimism of the will, Pessimism of the intellect.

Not at all, far worse

Possibly, but the reason I say that is that I think many people (and I don't mean you - not personal) underestimate just how bad the period since 2010 has been. Destruction of the British state, Brexit, widespread poverty, failure of the economic model, stagnation of the econony and of productivity, death of towns and cities outside London and commuter belt, etc.

The great skill of the Tories has always been to protect just enough people to get them re-elected while absolutely shafting the rest.

You are right though in that however bad things might be, that is no guarantee that they won't get worse!

It can get definitely get worse - (real) headbangers get in, fully privatise the NHS, exit ECHR, repeal the Equalities Act etc

And stupid enough to give sound bites about the Chagos Islands transfer completely blaming Starmer, when his party (under Cleverly and Cameron) had been responsible for the negotiation process.

It's not stupid if it works. Johnson turned the party into a Trump-inspired post-truth animal; the membership are absolutely there for that, and so is a significant portion of the general public.

As @dubtap said:

There's going to be a Jenreich Badenoch debate on GB News

And we might laugh at that, but that's really not a good thing.

It's not stupid if it works

Yes, I agree.

I'd argue that it long predates Johnson.
Think of Thatcher and her household analogy of the economy, Cameron on how he justified austerity, reeves and Starmer now saying there isn't any money...

Politics has probably always been about doing exactly this.

I'd argue that it long predates Johnson.

You can plot a trend, but there was a tipping point. It's too easy, and not very useful, to say "They all lie and they always have". Politicans (and people in general) have always been - and always will be - willing to make dodgy arguments to justify things, but the Johnson/Trump lack of shame and standards is so shocking because they displaced people who, however much we might find to criticise about them, did better.

Any set of conventions, whether it's "Mainstream Media" or the post-war consensus in most Western countries, maintains bad things alongside the good, because people are people and consensus is, by definition, what those people can manage to agree to. But over in that corner are Trump, Farage and Alex Jones; it's not the same.

Politics has probably always been about doing exactly this.

Sometimes it's about abolishing the death penalty or creating the NHS.

It can get definitely get worse - (real) headbangers get in, fully privatise the NHS

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Sometimes it's about abolishing the death penalty or creating the NHS.

Yes, good to acknowledge that good things have been done by politicians.

And I agree Johnson / Trump seem to have a psychopathic disregard for the truth which previous politicians did not - and our constitution, which assumes gentlemanly conduct, struggles to cope.

But there has always been a tendency for people to say the current politicians are not as good / honest, etc as the ones when I was younger - apparently this goes back forever.

It can get definitely get worse - (real) headbangers get in, fully privatise the NHS

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our constitution, which assumes gentlemanly conduct, struggles to cope.

Which did involve quite some hypocrisy of excusing "gentlemen" for really shitty things, but was still better than Trump/Johnson.

But there has always been a tendency for people to say the current politicians are not as good / honest, etc as the ones when I was younger - apparently this goes back forever.

Like people complaining of "the youth of today", or the old conservative myth of an idyllic past that progressives are destroying. So I avoid it. The post-war consensus was better than what came before; it's destruction was started by conservatives who believed in that "green fields of Old England" myth, only to be destroyed themselves by people like Johnson. Trump isn't uniqely bad as U.S. presidents go (Andrew Johnson was right up there with him on the toxic shit scale), but he is worse than most of what came in between. Saying that isn't nostalgia.

Fair summary

“So, the Tory party has whittled it down to the two most dislikeable candidates they could find.

A deeply arrogant belligerent bully and a grim opportunist who thinks goose-stepping off to the far right will give him power.”

Even better

“The one who gets angry about mums getting maternity pay versus the one who gets angry at refugee kids looking at pictures of Mickey Mouse”

deeply arrogant belligerent bully

She just seems to enjoy it. I'd struggle to find the clip, but when Badenoch made that comment about migrant care workers wiping bottoms, I recall one TV journalist being so shocked and upset that she was struggling to speak . When she got herself together, she said that possibly the worst thing about it was that Badenoch doesn't actually care about the particular issue, she just says these things for effect.

Thatcher thought that if you made enemies and upset people, it was a sign you were doing things right. That's bad enough, but I think Badenoch just enjoys it.

3.30 in this video
https://youtu.be/XzLL4ZIud8o?si=B4RiyI25EVI33ugU

This is what happens when you grow up on a diet of Franky Boil and Doug Stanhope. You don't need to be in the upper chamber to be an edge lord.

YouTube thread>>>

Please sir, could we have some real news

Be interesting to see what nonsense will be excused in the next two weeks because "they are just appealing to the members". Feel like making a bingo card.

Franky Boil

I wouldn't really say Frankie Boyle is an edge lord, he's certainly got a dark sense of humour but almost all of what he says is punching up and he's a fair bit to the left of labour now and last time round, he's also one of the few people in a public position who's been vocally condemning Netanyahu's actions pre and post Oct 7th.