Pre 1950s rides of LFGSS: old bikes, vintage rats, classic lightweights

Could be good -54' Gillott
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/276513172172?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-

Afternoon ride. Gearing set up for mashers, not spinners for sure, it felt hard going into a head wind. Felt a bit small, those smallish pedals did not help for sure. Not idea what crankset it has, but French for sure judging by left pedal marked G (gauche). Duprat copy? Was original owner French? Or some other connection with France

Originally supplied by R Watts from reading, local bike shop I presume?

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R Watts?
Robert ‘Turbo’ Watts
Had a shop at Wattage Cottage
Not

Holy crap, the condition of that old thing!

Incredible.

Would just like to say what a total stand up good bloke @Foreigner65 is
Just so as you know

You asked about miles on computer on the Maclean the other day - Dayton came with this little Joseph Lucas cyclometer showing 1168 miles on it and the condition of it suggests that probably that many had been travelled on

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Hey, cool

What a find. Stunning.

Amalgam

As I understand it 'Amalgam' was Dayton's word for what was more usually called 'flash butt welding'. The main tubes were mitred, pressed together, an electric current passed through the assembly, and.... bingo, it was glued together!

Sometimes it stayed together, but sometimes it didn't. I guess the quality control wasn't great. Dayton certainly sold a lot of bikes in the fifties - many going to children as a reward for passing the eleven plus exam ( subtext - now you can get yourself to school ).

Amost every one I saw was canary yellow - I've got a feeling this may be an early version, since the finish is more elaborate than the ones I remember.

Some other little facts: Dayton were based in Park Royal, London NW10, the cast head badge with the micrometer motif weighed a good two ounces - I know this because I used a Dayton badged frame as a TT bike which served for all my PBs. I replaced the badge with a transfer. My frame wasn't Amalgam - it was a track frame built with conventional lugs and silver soldered, quite probably by an outside builder, nothing to do with Dayton. They once had a pro track team.

Since this nicely finished bike has lasted so long I guess it must be one of the better ones - I suggest reducing the gearing and just enjoying it.

I had one of these……

As an aside, the same technique of construction with butting tubes together and welding by the passage of electricity was used I think by Peugeot.

As I worked in a bike shop in the 70's I guess it would be around that time.

I saw the tube joints and my first thought was that it looked like it had been [I think it’s called] resistance welded, but I didn’t think they had the capability to do it in the 50s. As @midlife correctly pointed out, it was a technique perfected and used by Peugeot in the 70s. Perhaps in the 50s the method was too much in its infancy hence the failures.

I don’t know how they do it. The energy release must be enormous, so they must use some kind of capacitor bank to store the energy before bringing the parts together. That would have been quite a difficult thing to do in the 1950s!

I remember thinking about this way back when I was told about Peugeot doing it. Heat generated is the square of the current so must need Amps rather than volts (if that's the correct units) .

I didn’t think they had the capability to do it in the 50s.

The evidence suggests that Dayton thought they did have the capability......but they were wrong.

Didn't Peugeot use internal lugs? I'm no expert on Peugeot, but I seem to remember hearing this story.

those smallish pedals did not help for sure

Just looked back at the photos in post 5277.

Those are quill pedals which are, in effect, single sided - so they can only comfortably used with toeclips. It's difficult to turn them to the correct side when riding if there are no toeclips.

What would be interesting to know is how many of these flash butt welded frame were returned under warranty. This example survived 70+ years of, by the looks of it, comfy life, so yes it probably is one of the good ones. Ridden less than 1200 miles though if that cyclometer was on it from start. Brooks is not yet fully broken in, so it may just be true.

What would be largest cog Cyclo Benelux could take? Would want to keep original chainring at 48t.

I don't think the late 70s/early 80s Peugeot lugless frames were welded. AFAIK, they inserted a ring of brazing rod into the tube and heated the joint until the filler flowed into the abutment.

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Yes absolutely correct - have few toeclips sitting around so will fit a pair on.

Benelux

Have you got an 1/8th or 3/32" chain?

If 3/32, all I know is that the Simplex TdF (fairly similar) claims to be able to go up to 24 teeth, but these 'plunger' type mechs always seemed find big sprockets challenging!

If 1/8th, I doubt if you will be able to find much above 21 teeth - three speed blocks 16/19/21 are still around, but I couldn't find anything bigger when I was looking.

It seems riders were tough back in the fifties - I suppose if you started your cycling life on fixed, having a (bottom) gear in the high fifties seemed perfectly reasonable.

3/32 chain and 4 speed block, Benelux was advertised as 13-23t, but most would be probably up to 20 in real life.

Indeed riders back then were built like brick-houses, none of this weight weenie stuff of today :)

It might be possible to use a five block and set the mech to work on the bottom four sprockets.

Four speed blocks are pretty rare since fives came along quickly. You 'd be lucky to find a four with the sprockets you want, whereas a 14-22 five is probably the commonest size, the problem would be getting your mech to reach the 22, but it does seem possible.

Hmm, 48 x 22 with 27" wheels comes to 58.9". Not great for the Chilterns, but that looks like it's as low as you'll get with the 48 ring.

Would just like to say what a total stand up good bloke @Foreigner65
is Just so as you know

Totally agree!!

Well, riddle-me this, Cyclo-Benelux fans… what in the mothering-hell do I need cable-wise to connect the daft spoonshifter to the clockwork rear mechSpringBoingThing that has a sort-of SA-type pulley but NoNut?
This is ‘quite a step learning curve’ like as Hokusai‘s wave is just a little breaker…

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From memory here. My Benelux and shifter are both at work and I’ve never used them, but I have studied them intimately in the past. Shifter end is just the usual gear cable with small barrel. I think you’re missing some bits at the derailleur end though, it should have a connector of some description that screws onto the end of the cable and goes on that ring. You may need some kind of stepped ferrule for where the cable goes through the stop.

Edit: scrub most of that. I think it’s just a nut and bolt with an ole through it. See the pics in these listings:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266747307458?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=bxnStrveR6e&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=QRT6A6eRR-O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/355512524958?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=Rm5SKqTkTMW&sssrc=4429486&ssuid=QRT6A6eRR-O&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY

Yep, you can probably use one of those that are on brake calipers.

See hub is on 😉