That Starmer fella...

that's certainly a take.

And she is an MP for Dover! D O V E R !

Yup 👍

Which is why I think they held their noses and welcomed her to the party. To have the MP for the constituency that is one of the main landing areas for the boats that Sunak has pledged to stop crossing the floor because she thinks his immigration policy is a busted flush is incredible.

https://www.politico.eu/article/tory-natalie-elphicke-defection-sparks-backlash-labour-women/

Elphicke took over the seat from her former husband, Charlie, a Conservative MP who was convicted in 2020 of three counts of sexual assault and sent to prison.

In an op-ed after his conviction, Natalie Elphicke wrote that he had been punished for being “charming, wealthy, charismatic and successful — attractive, and attracted to, women. All things that in today’s climate made him an easy target for dirty politics and false allegations.”

She was also briefly suspended from the House of Commons in 2021 for improperly trying to influence a judge not to disclose character statements written for Elphicke in his trial. Natalie Elphicke apologized and said she had been wrong to question the process.

...

Labour leader Keir Starmer’s spokesman told journalists earlier in relation to Elphicke and her husband: “She’s talked about that case extensively and we have nothing further to add.” Elphicke had not responded to a request for comment by the time of publication.

https://labour.org.uk/missions/safe-streets/

Tackling violence against women and girls. Labour will halve levels of violence against women and girls within a decade because everyone has the right to live free from fear.

real politik is so deeply depressing in so many ways, no-one should have to think well this is good actually when they're polling a 20% difference.

this is gross, we can say it, it's fine.

I hope Elphicke is the crack in the dam, other tories just say fuck it, much like sunak did to johnson and just refuse to support him anymore. Suddenly it all unravells comes crashing down rapidly. When this history books are written this is the moment when the end came into sight.

A great big dollop of wishful thinking I know, but what if this shit show of crimms is gone in a few weeks. I hope

And on the matter of Elphicke herself, for me the ends do justify means. I know others will disagree with this view and yes her joining the PLP is problematic but it's many times more problematic for sunak than Starmer. The story being the lead item on the six o'clock is stuff that oppositions can only dream of.

https://twitter.com/AdamBienkov/status/1788465584922923243

30 point lead in yougov. Would leave them with 13 predicted seats.
Any other leader etc...

Would leave them with 13 predicted seats.

Which would be lovely/hilarious etc, but - 18% of the vote and 13 seats is yet another example of how shit FPTP is.

Yep. But, as ever, after a big win there's no incentive to change it.
And, funny as it would be, that huge a majority isn't really very good for long term democracy.

Definitely, we have gone so low in politics that a toxic person/defection like that feels like a silver lining

As a mid-millennial it has been ingrained in me that if you hate Hilary, you get Trump. The highest form of millennial aesthetic is compromise. I wish I had the choice that gen x or boomers had or bravery like gen Z.

Totally agree. Starmer the dictator would be terrible for the country.

a toxic person/defection like that feels like a silver lining

does it? feels like the sign of quite an unhealthy democracy to me

Thought this article was very interesting on the differences in perceived importance of elections/ power (which feels like an ongoing theme)

https://www.theguardian.com/books/article/2024/may/08/the-searchers-by-andy-beckett-review-the-legacy-of-the-radical-left

The five politicians seem split between those prepared to build alliances and make compromises to gain power (Livingstone, McDonnell) and those playing a much longer game who see electoral victory almost as a side issue (Benn, Corbyn, Abbott). “Elections are a platform,” Benn said on Desert Island Discs in 1989. “People see elections much too much in terms of the outcome.” He told his supporters that his narrow loss to Denis Healey in Labour’s deputy leadership contest in 1981 was “an enormous victory”. Corbyn, similarly, spent months after the catastrophic 2019 general election defeat insisting that his arguments had been vindicated.

With caveats, Beckett subscribes to this Bennite view that politics is as much about changing ways of seeing and thinking as vote-counting. The left, he argues, has won many invisible, incremental battles, from investment in public transport in London to shifts in cultural attitudes. Today, pamphlets on diversity issued by Livingstone’s GLC “read like standard memos from human resources”. True enough, although how much this has to do with the GLC, or even the left, is debatable.

Looks like Labour have evaluated the risk / reward from welcoming Elphicke and come down on the side that the defection brings more reward than risk.

Personally think its a big mis-step. Yes, they want to win, but they've also got to stand for something. In the big scheme of things, yes they'll still win, but they're losing those who actually support traditional labour values in order to gain people who just want rid of the Tories or now and may leave after that.

but they've also got to stand for something

You must be new here 😂

Yep. But, as ever, after a big win there's no incentive to change it.
And, funny as it would be, that huge a majority isn't really very good for long term democracy.

Indeed. A switch to PR when polling 48% will obviously not lead to a majority under PR:
a) Many people will use the switch to PR to actualyl vote for their preferred parties (e.g. voting for the Greens rather than 'Most likely to oust the Tories' = Labour)
b) 48% of the vote share (as in the current opinion poll above) isn't a majority

Tories in 4th place behind Lib Dems and SNP would be very very funny though. Not even facing the (new) current Government at PMQs/etc.

very very funny

gross understatement imho

I knew they were deluded, but I didn't know they were that deluded.

Aren't they a bit pushed for space in the chamber - as the smallest party, presumably all the Tories wouldn't all get a seat

Lammy isn't the sharpest tool in the shed is he
😂

1 Attachment

I'd like to see polling on what would happen if we did switch to PR. I guess closer to the councils with decent numbers for Greens and Lib Dems.
One problem with a switch is that it would take a generation of new politicians to learn to compromise and make deals in order to get things done. Unlearning the antagonistic current behaviour would take a while.

Very very very?

You would find that extremists on the left and right would end up with an MP or two.

I'd rather see an change in our antagonistic parliamentary and legal systems before a change in fptp.

I'd rather see an change in our antagonistic parliamentary and legal systems before a change in fptp.

FPTP feeds an antagonistic parliamentary system - PR forces at least an element of consensus.