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Well said mate 👌
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“Labour are the same as the Tories”
It's generally the Keir Starmer thread where this tankie wank comes up every couple of weeks.
I very much agree with your comments, well said!
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I know this is a rant to get it off your chest, so sorry if this comes across as argumentative, but these statements—from the left at least—are generally not being literal about exact equality between the major parties' policy programmes, as I'm sure you've figured out. Any vaguely left-wing commenter can clearly see the destructive nature of the Conservative government and it's basically without question that Labour is preferable.
I don't like the simplistic framing of these statements either—they're not informative, they reduce the level of debate, but equally they're entirely valid value judgements. The most recent post by @chickenbones was sarcastically highlighting what they believed to be an indication of Labour returning to old rhetoric that blames the unemployed, for example.
Labour are far from perfect but they are good enough at the moment
^This is just as much a value judgement too, and that's totally fine, but pretending that Labour is beyond criticism pushes discussion in the same direction: more partisan, more derision, just vibes (take a look at some of your other replies calling people tankies for christ's sake).
The parties' directions are obviously different to me, but that doesn't mean Labour are meeting the threshold for the progressive change we need. There are certainly some problematic similarities, so I'd have thought that talking about the direction of the next government would be good and necessary.
LFGSS is full of lefties anyway, surely we can criticise both without pretending it'll have any serious electoral effect?
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@Big_Ted
Probably the wrong thread but I’ve really had enough of the “Labour are the same as the Tories”. I’m not mightily impressed by Labour but I’m calling bullshit.
Unless you’re trying to convince yourself that Labour is a borderline fascist party that believes in economic isolation and ultra-nationalism while pushing the views of the far right for at least a couple of years if not longer then the suggestion is utterly risible and suggests that you have an agenda, aren’t paying attention or are just very dim (no reason not to be 3 from 3).
But yes, let’s write off Labour, let’s honk on about economic incompetence (hypocrisy much) and pick apart every Labour utterance while giving the Tories a free pass (“time to move on” - fucking A but not in the way you mean). And yes, let’s pile in on Angela Rayner while ignoring Sunak’s, at best, opaque tax arrangements.
I mean, it’s almost like 14 years and counting of Tory destruction, corruption and spite haven’t happened, let’s shift to what Labour, not in power, is and isn’t doing. Labour aren’t implementing policies, they aren’t thrashing around like a fish out of water, gasping for air, they aren’t desperately salting the battlefield.
Labour are far from perfect but they are good enough at the moment, we’ve had 14 years of the Tories clearly showing us who they are and what they represent and they have to go (really, they should hang their heads in collective shame and fuck off quietly to their lucrative non executive directorships and consultancies).
So, Labour and the Tories are the same? Do fuck off