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If the average age of Palestinians in Gaza is 18 as often quoted and there are some surviving who are as old as me, there will be disproportionately large numbers whose questions don't start with 'how shall I rape and murder Israelis?'. More likely questions are:
Where is Mummy?
Why am I hungry?
Where is my toy?I tend not to post on this thread because of the ridiculous arguments over nuance and accusations of bias. However, I still find it beyond comprehension that victims of genocide, with the very last survivors still having tattoos on their wrists, would wish the same fate on others.
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Quite, so kill every firstborn before they come after me?
This cannot be the will of the Jewish diaspora, I count some amongst my friends and loved and lost one of them. Neither can it be what the Israeli people want as most of them must be sane.
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If you look globally, worldwide, right now, there are about a hundred and twenty-nine thousand people who are in I.P.C. Phase 5, meaning a catastrophic type of hunger. A hundred and twenty-nine thousand. In Gaza, there are five hundred and seventy-seven thousand. If you add these two numbers together, you can say that you have about seven hundred thousand people in the world who are in I.P.C. Phase 5, of which five hundred and seventy-seven thousand are in Gaza. That means that eighty per cent of the people, or four out of five people, in famine or a catastrophic type of hunger are in Gaza right now.
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Neither can it be what the Israeli people want as most of them must be sane.
All peoples are sadly susceptible to the genocidal hatred and dehumanisation espoused by fanatical, far right or extreme religious groups. The Israeli right is less of a religious movement and more a nationalist movement that weaponises religion, there is very strong anti Israeli feeling in the Jewish diaspora, both among religious and secular groups.
The tactics of Hamas and right wing Israel are very similar: every member of the other group is implicated in the crimes against us, therefore their lives don't matter. This is how both sides justify their atrocities, and the death toll spirals along with support for extreme views.
It should not be controversial to say that many people in both groups desire the total annihilation of the other. It's just a sad fact. It's also highly nuanced and fluid, and arguing which side is worse in this respect is a dead end. Both groups also have those who want peace.
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Quite, so kill every firstborn before they come after me?
This cannot be the will of the Jewish diaspora
I'd edit this if I were you.
The 'will of the Jewish diaspora' isn't some monolithic world view. Particularly in the US Jews have been leading the protests against Israel's attacks on Gaza and there has been a Jewish bloc at the London demonstrations for example. Jewish opposition to Zionism has always existed and Jews play a prominent role today in criticising the political ideology of Zionism and the actions of the state of Israel.
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I think it’s ok. I read it as being: it’s nonsense to say ‘extreme statement x is the will of the diaspora’.
Just as it was nonsense to say x is the will of Palestinians in the Gaza Strip (on the last page).
I understand how it could be read differently though (so perhaps worth an edit anyway).
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Thank you @miro_o, that was exactly what I was trying clumsily to express. I apologise to all if that wasn't clear and it's good to hear that there is still reason on both sides of the divide.
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This is worth a read:
'Ex-Shin Bet chief Ami Ayalon calls for release of all hostages in exchange for Palestinian prisoners, including Marwan Barghouti, whom he sees as the only one who can lead the Palestinians after the war ends'
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Netanyahu says he opposes Palestinian state in any postwar scenario
Benjamin Netanyahu has said he informed the US that he opposes the
establishment of a Palestinian state as part of any postwar scenario.Israel will only agree to a deal that would see the country gain
security control over the entire Gaza Strip, the Israel prime minister
said at a news conference on Thursday. He said:In any future arrangement … Israel needs security control all
territory west of the Jordan. This collides with the idea of
sovereignty. What can you do?Oh what a surprise, almost like that was the goal all along.
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https://twitter.com/CensoredMen/status/1748142212515307644?t=nQhXG_XNwGuksvPstiRziQ&s=19
He said the quiet bit out loud again.
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"Middle East crisis live: Israel president calls deaths of 21 Israeli soldiers in single Gaza attack an ‘unbearably difficult morning’"
Oh the irony...
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Al Quaeda murdered 5000 civilians, of many nationalities, of all religions and none, 9/11 was not a retaliation it was an atrocity, and it's wild to have to say this.
That the US also committed disproportionate actions murdering innocents unrelated to any military objective doesn't change this. It's sick that our governments commit atrocities believing they have some kind of moral high ground, but I don't think it helps to minimise the actions of anti west terror groups.
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Think it's fair to say that to a degree at least, it was both. The terms are not mutually exclusive. It certainly didn't occur in a vacuum.
Many US politicians and commentators (including pro-Israeli ones) have observed that the one-sided support for Israel, and by constantly giving into the Israel lobby 'at home' has in part lead to 9/11 and many other attacks - not just on US soil. Not to mention the growing number of enemies they've made and the huge amount of (deserved) hate and unpopularity they've now earned in the region, and beyond.
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About
Israel / Palestine
Posted by
@skydancer
To be clear, while I respect that they've taken measures that are more than just empty words - especially considering their poverty compared to the rich Gulf states who are silent or complicit - I'm not putting it past their aims and objectives, especially given their history in Yemen and source of support/funding. But it's worth remembering though that the Houthis stated that their aim was (at least until the US-led coalition stepped in) solidarity and to put pressure on so that aid can enter Gaza.
The US led coalition deserve more blame for the Red Sea escalation. To my statement earlier, they sat back and unconditionally defended Israel and done nothing of worth to help de-escalate the situation, but were quick to go war mongering in the Red Sea, waters where their presence has always been contentious and hated by pretty much all the local populations.