Isen workshop: adventures in batch production (or not...)

I gotta say, I am really struggling to turn on the empathy here ...

To me it sounds like they made the same mistakes over and over, kept lying to people over and over. Goddam sloppy QC and following that not upright and forthcoming enough to make people whole In a way that didn't involve ghosting, gaslighting or blaming it on whatever.

Even if that's not the case for every customer, and maybe 7 out of 10 people got an OK frame and experience, and maybe some people were super happy and blown away by it all, that's still way to high a rate of shit experience / quality / disputes.

To let people hang like that while still accepting deposits and orders is ... well, I've been on the receiving end with Matt and the Talbot, and it really messed with me.

In the end I feel lucky that someone on here had a word on my behalf and I didn't end up completely defrauded, and I had really hoped for Matt to turn things to a better page and there would be rainbow farting unicorns for the rest of time.

Instead I still feel sour about the whole thing and disappointed that they did this to other people after me. For years.

What it must've felt like for people in limbo that parted with their hard earned and got ghosted to then see a video drop where they see GCN or the service course waxing on about how cool the frames are and whatnot. The gall of it!

Well, that's my 2p.

@TvH will be along to mock you soon.

Isen it appears never learned or improved. Kept fucking customers around, telling lies, failing to make rideable frames yet somehow had people who defended them and attacked anyone who dared to question them or raise issues publicly.

@coldharbour care to comment? Your profile shows you have been active this month on here.

don't really give a fuck about you pal

8) If you look back through this thread, you'll find that I didn't call them out in public, but tried to resolve everything privately.

I wish you had. It would've saved me a lot of money and a lot of headache.

EDIT: ... me being dumb ...

Do you think this is someone from Isen? Its another customer as far as I understand it, who are saying they wouldn't have purchased an Isen if they'd known they might get fucked over.

You're right indeed. And I am a dumbass that should stay away from a keyboard while being on antibiotics and painkillers. In my defence it was user[INSERTNUMBERHERE] on both sides.

@user155905 apologies ... and really sorry you didn't avoid the headache and loss

haha no harm, thanks.

You gave enough of a fuck to come and swear at them. Why do you stick your oar in around people expressing dissatisfaction with Isen?

I don't have any desire to go over issues from years ago, there's nothing to be gained at this point. I should address a couple of points however.

Caren wasn't selling isen assets, no one has done that. None of our machines were owned by isen, we both came into it with them from previous businesses.

Running a business over the last few years has become increasingly difficult, rent increases, rate rises, crazy energy increases and brexit all made our lives much harder, but we still just about managed to keep going. However, as was mentioned above, which I'm not going to get into any further, a key staff member had personal issues such that they weren't able to work. With benefit of hindsight that was the beginning of the end, but we still hoped we could keep going.

However, when they stopped working, we stopped taking orders because it was obvious that it could go to the wall and we couldn't in good conscience take people's money knowing that. Our hope was we could build through the backlog and in that time find a full time painter who could come and work for us. That didn't happen.

Isen was a limited company, and as directors of a limited company you have legal obligations you have to abide by. I wanted to get all the frames we had taken money for finished, but in the end it was only me there, and even then we ran out of money. Not only can I not magic money to pay rent, keep the lights on etc... but we were then knowingly insolvent. As such we couldn't continue trading. The other thing about a limited company is that the accounts are all available online. You can see what our revenues were and you can also (with a bit of working backwards) see how much we were paid, which for the entire time we were operating was less than minimum wage for an apprentice. I mention that solely incase anyone was under the illusion that we had found the cheat codes that allowed someone in the bike trade to earn enough money to develop an enjoyable cocaine habit. We hadn't.

I'm very aware how upsetting it must be for the 5 people who didn't get there bikes, I did everything I could to try and get them done, but in the end there just wasn't any way. Id suggest that hanlons razor would be a good way of viewing this whole situation.

We didn't set out 6 years ago with the intention of stealing 5 people's deposits at some point in the future, even with my propensity for bad ideas that is too far fetched. However, if you are of the opinion that we are actually a bunch of scamming scumbags, you can at least take heart knowing that because of it we won't be able to work in the industry again, so hold that close at least.

I'm going to try and find somewhere to dump all the data sheets for people with isens in case they need info in the future, but not sure when or where that will be.

Matt taking deposits (and expensive parts) for frames he never delivered and Caren selling-off business assets six weeks before declaring insolvency.

I mean, this is literally criminal, no?

Yes, which is why it never happened. Again, it isn't something you can just hide.

Where's my money, Matt?

Also, I just don't believe a word you say, as you are full of shit.

It's clearly a shit situation for all involved.

I don't think we gain anything by having another slagging match on here.

Sad to hear this Matt and your bike building story has all the elements of a Greek tragedy. Bit fucked up for all involved. As my eldest daughter and I plan to set off from Bilbao to Barcelona this summer on the tandem and the youngest is now starting her journey on the back, I salute you both for all that you've achieved.
Our journey was far from straight forward but ultimately taught me a lot about myself. Here we are on a trip in 2021 London France Belgium Netherlands London.
Speaking to a few friends who run businesses, it's the wild west out there for anyone trying to make a go of it.
No one is perfect. Not you, not I nor anyone commenting on this thread but ultimately you got out from behind the keyboard, gave it a go and created some awesome bikes along the way.

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You do have to wonder what is fair here. Some of the defence from Caren and Matt seems weak. It’s not that I’m dismissing how awful covid was for supply chains, mental health and everything else in between. However, like others, is it right to continue to build (and spend) bikes for the likes of ServiceCourse and other showcases? I think no. Essentially this is gambling with customers money that the return would pay off from more orders and more money into the business. I think Matt in one comment said the backlog of orders was overwhelming…if so then it would be questionable as to why you would do this. I too know of at least two people, who have been impacted by this business and it so damaging to the handmade industry as a whole.
My advice, file to the administrators for your claim, if they have sent emails to customers saying it’s winding down, you have a right. You also have a right to call the police if you feel that the evidence you have would constitute fraud or theft.
This is not nice for anyone but if you are a business owner, welcome to big school. You can’t mess people around. It’s not fair on customers and it’s only delaying what looks like an inevitable situation which has no happened. I feel for the other framebuilders who have had the same supply chain, covid challenges some worse, some perhaps not as bad but still they adapt and support customers because it’s the right thing to do, and they have a reputation they wish to uphold.
I would like to see a publication like Rouleur write about this as we shouldn’t just assume custom frame builders are all the same but also that it’s not all plain sailing. Customers and builders have good and bad points and this should be talked about so people do thorough research on who they pick before spending thousands and getting nothing back.
When picking a builder, the site proved invaluable for me due to comments on Isen however I don’t think the mass public look here or even know of it to check reviews, stories etc. It’s so easy to think that if they have pics on Instagram then they must be good. BB threads, wheel alignment etc must be heartbreaking to discover if not correct and for builders to go on defensive is hard to defend.
From these comments, and I suspect no doubt more customers unaware of this site have had issues too, the business should have stopped a long time ago.

Shoddy build quality, terrible customer service, absence of quality control but shiny paint jobs kept making their bikes seem attractive.

Sadly myself and others on here kept quiet hoping that we were supporting members of lfgss community build a business. But it is clear the issues with the first batch of bikes never really got resolved, mistakes were not learned from but just repeated.

'kept quiet'? I'm not sure you've ever kept quiet, unless you mean the bit when you made that fake account to attack them/agree with yourself.

Am trying to stay out of this thread, but you have no idea of the amount of work Matt and Caren put in, in return for making no money and your gloating is really grating.

What fake account?

To be clear I don’t know dancing james!

That's exactly what Dancing James would say!

I would deny myself three times!

#dancingjudas
#dancingjesus

Back up your assertion! Or is it utter bullshit?