In the news

I don't think any of the people driving around day in day out blocking the road worry about cancer patients. They are also used to stand around in heavy traffic protest or not.
I came across a few protest in town recently and never had a problem cycling through or walking past.

The comments, the comments........

(on the Twitter piece, not your post)

That's how protest/strike/etc. work generally

I think conflating protest and strike is not particularly helpful. The point of a strike is that you withdraw your labour to demonstrate how valuable it is. Protest doesn't have that aspect and is more about raising awareness of a cause / strength of feeling?

Organising a massive march (like the Iraq war / student / People's Vote) highlights a democratic deficit. High-impact actions by small groups do not necessarily do the same.

There's also the question of who gets to determine which causes are "important" enough for disruptive protest to be allowed. Anti-lockdowns / covid vax? Anti-Welsh second home ownership?

I was going to say that the first thing that comes to my head re protests is marching - which while disruptive is planned.

I think the difference with these protests is that they apply classic obstacle based protest - like stopping workers from say cutting down trees - to a large section of the public going about their ordinary lives. That contrasts with someone doing their job which will cause a particular harm/action.

Personally I'd be pissed if my day was inconvenienced by them, and I don't think works, but I recognise is as a valid form of protest.

I guess one of their main points might be that a large section of the public really need to become more familiar with the issue they're protesting about?

Isn't the point of protests like these to raise awareness in groups who perhaps had not considered the impact of their actions?
You're unlikely to find a lot of Range Rover drivers turning up to see hear Coldplay sing about renewable energy sources.

Yeah I do get that.

I guess I'm drawing a distinction between the two to highlight why a lot of people might react against it. Idk if those same people would have the same reaction to say protestor chaining themselves to trees to prevent logging. My gut says they probably would, but 🤷

Range Rover drivers are exactly the type of people going to Coldplay concerts.

Isn't the point of protests like these to raise awareness in groups who perhaps had not considered the impact of their actions?

This, see Insulated Britain, they get a lots of flakes, but recently show how importance this is in the fact of climate changes and cost of living.

Insulated Britain, they get a lots of flakes, but recently show how importance this is in the fact of climate changes and cost of living

Sadly they also turned a sensible idea into a culture war issue. It's not IB's fault of course, but the Tories now seem massively loath to "give in" to IB and support insulation subsidies.

I might sign up if there is free chocolate.

support insulation subsidies

You mean provide?

It makes sense why they won’t do it. I certainly wouldn’t in their place. Can’t trust the industry, and can’t trust consumers to not be taken for a ride. If they went for mass scale subsidies they’d find the cost per unit of energy saved would be exorbitant, whilst acting as a black hole for construction folk needed elsewhere.

I hope they carry on being disruptive and keeping the issue in the news, the apathetic are more dangerous than the deniers and need to wake up

If they went for mass scale subsidies they’d find the cost per unit of energy saved would be exorbitant, whilst acting as a black hole for construction folk needed elsewhere.

You can oppose almost any government initiative on the basis that the implementation would be shit.

In the late 60s the government of the day managed to convert the nation's entire gas infrastructure from town gas to North Sea gas, so these sorts of things must be possible.

But you’d think when faced with an array of possible initiatives you’d pick those most likely to succeed.

I suspect insulation isn’t one of them, due in part to some of the challenges I mentioned above.

I think the difference with these protests is that they [affect] a large section of the public going about their ordinary lives

Yeah, but it's a collective issue. The basic message is that not enough is being done and we have to change everything. This makes everyone confront that. If you're driving a car and get stuck behind what is ostensibly a climate change protest, then you'd have to be very dim not to put 2 and 2 together. It doesn't make motorists bad, we just all have to confront the need for change.

The angry reaction from lots of people is part of the confrontation not a reason to stop it.

I actually asked someone who hated the insulate Britain protests if they were more or less likely to insulate their (new) home as a result, and they actually said they thought about it already and were now less likely to insulate purely to spite the cause of IB.

My first thought was that this is a reason to stop this kind of action, but then I realised that people like that only argue against these protests on grounds of their effectiveness. Her entire point was "Of course I think climate change is important etc, but I think this is the wrong way to go about it". This is the basis of all the criticism against disruptive protest. The only way to counter this argument is to keep going, because it will always be used against you whatever you do. If you keep going then they have to confront it eventually

If a protest is worthwhile it will start with angry confrontation but if the core message is incontestable then all the false arguments against it will be found out, if you just keep going.

To undermine everything I just said, there are clear lines you shouldn't cross, mainly violence, so the details matter.

if the core message is incontestable then all the false arguments against it will be found out

Thankfully, this is why Brexit was reversed in 2019.

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

I kind of want there to be rolling power cuts now

Reducing energy usage message cut at PM request

Anybody know what Conor Burns is supposed to have done? Is he part of the Anti-Growth Coalition?

He was in the leaked dossier a while ago as having inappropriate relationships with male staff members.

This seems to be related to the conference so maybe pincher 2.0?

Do you have a link to the leaked dossier?

I personally consider victims of poisoning to be self-indulgent if/when they complain

Here you go, it's the one from 2017 that says Liz and Kwasi been fucking for years.

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