Should Scotland be an independent country?

People more obsessed with legacy of “we got independence” than actually improving the country.

Charlatans.

Aye thats the issue, so many more people are interested in that, than actually making the country a better place. Which is the real problem! Tbh after all the last few years, im really disillusioned in politics, they are all at it. Take take take while mudslinging about how bad the others are. Its a farce.

Bump.

Game ooooooonnn!!!

Nice to have a grown up in the room ✊

Fascinating listening to john swinney on R4 basically come completely unstuck when asked the obvious question; why repeat Brexit?

Lots of aspirational Brexit-like answers of sailing the seven seas of global EU Trade to make up for the crippling deficit of fucking about with your largest market.

Happy to be convinced otherwise, but as far as I can see the only true answer is that you're happy to wear 10+ yrs of economic disruption for a role of the dice.

Luckily it's not being proposed during a time of economic uncertainty. Is the political rational that people turn to extremes during times of social unrest?

Out of curiosity does anyone have any good analysis of the Scottish financal services in an indy Scotland in the EU? Can see that there are opportunities there, but would like to understand what the market looks like, and how it would fair after being outside the EU for what would have been a reasonable amount of time outside Europe.

That analysis would need to be paired with the “but if you stay”, which looks like continuing decline imposed by an authoritarian government in Westminster.

And it might still be dreadful, of course, at which point the question to the people of Scotland would have to be honest- 10 years (or whatever) of disruption, switching to the Euro (this might be an easier sell if the £ goes below the € before the referendum) and so on, in return for a future that isn’t defined by Eton.

On the cutting yourself off from your biggest market thing - JRM has insisted that their are no checks on imported goods, so I think that’s not a worry.

Edited cos no TW.

Just saying...

New treatise from Simon Jenkins about creating a new British Federation to cure the grumpy celts of their grumpiness.

IMO a new UK constitution and federal style gov, with a new English Parliament for England, and a senate of nations in place of the Lords would be my ideal and pretty modern and progressive.

a new English Parliament for England

EVEL will only hasten the break-up of the union. England is just too big to play as an equal partner with the other nations of the UK.

Round 2. 🛎️
https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/research-and-analysis/2022/10/building-new-scotland-stronger-economy-independence/documents/building-new-scotland-stronger-economy-independence/building-new-scotland-stronger-economy-independence/govscot%3Adocument/building-new-scotland-stronger-economy-independence.pdf

This is a great start. It is succinct and easy to read but I sense most people wont bother reading it and will get their opinions from social media as normal.

I hope they are planning even more succinct and easy correspondence in a question and answer format. Unfortunately, I think it has to be that simple to make a proper impact.

I felt quite proud reading that, we can do a better job in Scotland than Westminster does for the UK. It won't be easy and it wont all be immediately fantastic but we are not too small, too stupid or too lazy and never have been.

Honestly I dont think they can, the problem I think no matter what colour they are they cannot lose none of them and in reality its us that's will feel the brunt when the shit hits the fan as it usually does.

As much as the tories are a total shit show, the SNP haven't even been able to build some ferrys without going hundreds of millions over. It leaves me that they cannot run a country and the argument but we aren't as bad as this one isn't really a good mile stone

If the SNP provide enough failures in an independent Scotland, they will be voted out.

The political landscape will evolve over time in Scotland and we will help to shape it rather than the Westminster government we really have very little say in.

Alas, Im no expert, there is experts for that.

I dont think they can be, just look at so much that's went to shit already and they are still in.

Im in Glasgow and the council SNP/Greens lead is a disaster. Yet they get in time after time again. I've honestly never seen the city as bad.

I imagine they are unable to be ousted from power in Glasgow because they are the only party that stand for Independence. I understand from your point of view that must be a frustrating Catch 22.

Simply, I believe, that in the next 10, 20, 30 years Scotland has and will have enough bright, determined and innovative people and businesses (or at least as many as the likes of Denmark, Ireland, Norway etc etc) to make a success of being an independent nation and be more successful than it is now, even if just by a little bit. I believe in us.

....and of course, England and Wales will be far better off without the burden of us Scots. Win win.

Interesting that the Yes campaign are adamant that they will use the UK pound no matter what

Funny that this post (from 8 years ago) is what popped up when I clicked on the thread to come and ask about the announcement that Sturgeon would want to dump the pound.

Can someone who knows more about this explain to me why that would be a reasonable stance?

Im not sure what stance exactly you are asking about but just to cut n paste from the document to give the Scottish Governments current official stance on the subject...

We propose two phases for currency policy after independence.

In phase one, from independence day, Scotland would continue to use
the pound sterling. This does not require any formal agreement with
the Westminster Government. Sterling has been the legal currency in
Scotland for centuries and is internationally traded. The continued
use of sterling would allow time for new institutions, including an
independent Scottish Central Bank, to be established during transition
and to build credibility, ensuring continuity for citizens and
business during the phase immediately after independence.

In phase two, a new independent Scottish pound would be established.
This would take place as soon as practicable through a careful and
managed transition. The decision about when the economic conditions
are right would ultimately be for the Scottish Parliament. Part of the
remit of the post-independence Scottish Central Bank would include
advising on these economic conditions. In phase two, the role of the
Scottish Central Bank would expand."

I prefer the Shmackarooney but there we go....

It seems that's its the same pigheadedness as last time we will use this and that. I think it could be made very difficult for a Indy scotland to use it and after the last few years take what any of these politicians say with a pinch of salt.

I'll admit that Westminster could very easily punish us if we choose independence by making things very difficult on a number of issues. In fact, I expect it, certainly initially.

I guess hanging on to the pound is inevitably complicated, just shit me up a bit because it’ll be something that will put loads of voters off I reckon. Fuck knows.

Phillips (whose work is quoted in the paper) has published a quick reaction piece.
https://ifs.org.uk/news/immediate-response-scottish-governments-paper-independence-and-scottish-economy

tl/dr.. spending cuts are inevitable

Free Prescriptions, Free Tuition, free bus passes etc etc etc will all have to go I bet, the problem is the SNP imo have been buying votes in scotland for too long with a lot if stuff like this.

Increase taxes we already pay more up here. Yikes.

That guy is so neg. He just needs to believe harder.