Russian invasion of Ukraine

It's indeed strange territory when Israel is supporting nazis, according to Russia.

As if Russia didn't have enough problems already and wants a beef with mossad as well.

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The last invasion in 1939 was a huge success!

Sarcasm?

The reason for the Russian invasion of Ukraine is NATO inaction: inaction after the invasion of Georgia, inaction after warcrimes in Syria, inaction after the annexation of Crimea. NATO has stood by and done nothing, effectively inviting Putin to continue.

So basically you are saying NATO should be the world police. I hope that is not what it becomes. UN should have more muscle to sort these things out.

Why would Nato of responded to those? That's not it's purpose and it's blurring the lines in Afghanistan and Libya led to some of the weakened support from members in the last decade

UN should of responded but its fucked with who has seats on the security council

In an ideal world they should but they dont. I think a more firm approach to the annexation of crimea would have been appropriate by nato but its also not that hard to come up with better actions when one is looking only in the rearview mirror i guess.

So basically you are saying NATO should be the world police

No. Should rephrase: ONE of the contributory factors to Russian aggression is perceived continued inaction from NATO.

My real point is: to say NATO are to blame for current Russian aggression is absurd. Russia invaded because they believed Ukraine would receive no help from outside and taking Kyiv would be easy. It's the same with Ukrainian nuclear disarmament. Ukraine got rid of it's nukes to passify Russia. In fact, Ukrainian lack of nukes made the invasion more likely.

The single biggest reason remains Putin himself and the expansionist nationalism he has fostered.

The invasion started in 2014 and the reason was Ukraine's intention to join the EU. That was an existential threat to Putin. Ukraine's free and fair multi-party democratic elections were already a threat to him. The people's choice of EU membership was the last straw. If Ukraine had prospered the way Poland did when they joined the EU, Russians would have wanted rid of Putin and dictatorship.

Putin apologises, shock https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-putin-sends-herzog-independence-day-wishes-amid-spat-over-russia-s-nazi-comments-1.10781843 Scared of Ukraine getting Iron Dome?

A method to help Ukrainian troops on the ground with vital medical kit

https://www.justgiving.com/crowdfunding/tourniquetgroupbuy?utm_term=7dPq2JrgA

That said, there are also the people who are saying that Putin is right to regard NATO as a threat...which is much less arguable.

is it?

Anyway, to resolve a conflict you have to understand exactly what has driven your enemy to get to this point, whether you agree or not

ftfy

We don't agree with Putin, doesn't mean we can't understand him. Understanding him isn't excusing him.

Understanding him isn't excusing him.

Its the same as why Thatcher and her government had so many meetings with the IRA in secret. The Good Friday Agreement was a result of years of people engaging with the terrorists behind closed doors not just something that fell into place out of the blue.

Its easy to say "whats the point?" about these things but as you say understanding how your enemy got to this point is crucial for resolving the situation.

It grinds my gears a little bit to hear people criticising Macron for talking to Putin for example. Another example would be the heat that Corbyn got from meeting with the IRA (and why the government kept their meetings secret).

I wonder how much Hollywood has to do with public opinion about this?

"We don't negotiate with terrorists!"

Er, yeah we do, all the fuckin' time. For good reason.

Meanwhile.....
The US allegedly provided Intel that helped Ukraine sink the Moskva.
A new level of oh shit....?

A new level of oh shit....?

huh?

I’m not remotely surprised by this. I would have expected NATO countries to provide intelligence to Ukraine forces. Targeting the Russian generals etc has also been mentioned as being led by NATO intelligence.

As in, providing aid to Ukraine defend themselves against attack is one thing but providing Intel to assist in attacking the Moskva is on another level and sure to really get Putin (even more) bat shit crazy.

So you feel that intel for defence is OK, but intel to assist in attacking is not .... but on what criteria do you differ between defending against a war ship and attacking a war ship?

I thought it was very public knowledge that a lot of countries have been providing Ukraine with intel

It's publicly known that Ukraine has been receiving intel from lots of intelligence agencies. It's been reported for a few weeks.

When they talk about "intelligence" I wonder how precise/actionable it is. Would it be the case that the intelligence is basically ill hold the gun and point it, you pull the trigger when I say "now" or do the Ukraine teams need to put their own brain to work to get their outcomes.

I would hope it is like the sequence towards the end of 'Captain Philips'.
Ukrainians with their fingers on triggers/buttons/launch sequences,
already aimed on the target waiting for the 'Four green' signal to go.

The Moskva would always be a legitimate target because of its (supposedly) advanced monitoring equipment.

@stelfox @Jameo of course it has been public knowledge, on matters of weapon and monetary aid, not sure what that has to do with my post. My point was it appears that only today has it been confirmed that the US had a big hand in the sinking of the pride of the Russian fleet, a vessel so highly regarded that they lied about the cause of its fate. THAT will really get Putin riled on top of his already overflowing dislike of us 'westerners'.

Ok, one last time. My post simply points to multiple US agencies within the last 18 hours confirming US Intel helped locate and confirm the location of the Moskva to which Ukraine acted upon by sinking it. I have a gut feeling this will really piss Putin off, on top of all his previous butt hurt 'they're picking on us' rants.
My post had nothing to do with nor did I mention any personal criteria regarding this particular escalation as I see it.