Russian invasion of Ukraine

I don’t really understand the whole point of NATO country giving jets to UA. If you want to arrange a no-fly zone the best way is to ship them enough automated ground to air missile systems. Fighter jets cost huge amount of money to run and you Can gain air supremacy just for couple minutes before all have been shot down. Drones are built different and have proven their worth Both in recognaisance as Well as in conducting actual strikes.

It wouldn't be the first time NATO intervenes in a war where no NATO countries were involved initially. I'm talking about Yugoslavia and Kosovo war in 1998.

How is this even remotely similar? Did Yugoslavia have a large Nuclear stockpile and would attacking them or establishing a no fly zone have triggered Article 5? The answer is no.

My point is there's a precedent about NATO intervention where no NATO countries were initially involved.

there's a precedent

You're right. But then I would also say that basing international politics on such principles quickly becomes futile. There's a precedent for Ukraine being ruled from Moscow, there are plenty of precedents for NATO doing absolutely nothing to help people in need, and so on and so on. In my opinion the best approach to problems at this scale is realpolitik.

I agree that a no fly zone in Ukraine risks nuclear war, and I don't think we can implement one.

I know the question has been asked, but if Putin attacked an eastern European country in NATO would we risk nuclear war at that stage to defend that country?

Putin has started arresting members of the FSB

https://twitter.com/igorsushko/status/1502345407350730755?s=20&t=LIuRmG-lzEQbVLg_LnD9Ew

if Putin attacked an eastern European country in NATO would we risk nuclear war at that stage to defend that country?

Kind of have to go all out once a NATO member is attacked or it doesn't stand for anything I'd have thought.

"Man who spent years eliminating dissidents is shocked to discover people will lie rather than tell him what he doesn't want to hear. Film at 11."

how can we act as a free world if the strongest military alliance in the world closes its eyes for all the atrocities the Russians commit in Ukraine.

Is not going to all out war with Russia the same as closing your eyes?

To my mind the only logical reason for a no-fly zone is to crack on and go to to war in the acknowledgement that it will be impossible to find a solution that will appease Putin.

This is an interesting opinion piece in the New York Times from 1997 that pretty much predicted where we are now, even without Putin in the picture.
https://archive.ph/zCEpV

There's an essay by a historian that I read in 2016 that (superifically) linked Trump, Brexit and Putin to a potential world war around about now. It basically superimposes events from 1900 to 1939 over this era and warns that we are sleepwalking into repeating history, mostly driven by economic greed. Will post a link to it when I'm back home.

In all seriousness, and I appreciate that this is going to seem insane to most, one of the (many) reasons we decided against having children is our view of what the future looks like in terms of global politics and the environment. Always hoping that we would be wrong though, of course. Not claiming that we foresaw anything, but the last 10 to 15 years has certainly felt like humanity is wandering towards disaster one way or another.

one of the (many) reasons we decided against having children is our view of what the future looks like

Isn't this quite a common view?

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Doesn’t seem completely insane to me, unusual but not insane. I would argue that humanity has been running into disaster over the past ten to fifteen years though, pick any period in history and I think it has always been heading that way. Availability of news in recent years may be the difference - fake or otherwise.

The US has gone backwards to the 1930s in social development. Major cities have huge homeless problem that I never saw in the 60s. Sure there were slums but not homelessness on this scale.
Canada is going down the same path with housing prices. My own house was 2 years pay when I bought it, now it’s worth 6 year’s pay. I have friends who want a house but will never be able to buy one.
If a couple are barely scraping out an existence they can’t afford children.

The west has its own oligarchs and is turning into a feudal society.
Oligarchs>semi-rich>law enforcement>peasants

Throw into the mix all the voter suppression and anti science anti education anti lgbt anti abortion crap as well. America is totally fucked thanks to Russian disinformation.

Understandable in some ways but could that not be an incentive to actually get kids as well. Make the world a better place n all that by providing more ppl with better values than u think is the norm today?

Fully my position as well, but not shared, unfortunately

Not to mention the potential rise of eco-facism.

For what it's worth, I agree with you. A billionaire led system of feudalism within a lifetime. They control the drinking water, food supplies and energy, everybody else has to tow the line to have access to it.

Isn't this quite a common view?

Possibly. My friendship group did not agree at all ten years ago but now see my point to at least some extent. It's not something I've read about to gauge if it's a common opinion.

Feels like LFGSS needs a thread about the future.

Pffffft our parents had their kids under the cloud of nuclear annihilation in a global stand off between the evil fucking empire and the slightly less evil empire at a time where they didn't really expect to live long enough to tragically die from cancer in their 80s and their shitty cars wouldn't start in the morning in winter - what we have now looks like a relative cake walk.

what we have now looks like a relative cake walk.

It's not now I'm worried about.

+1 for this view. We have no interest in bringing children into this world. It's pretty fucked now, fuck knows what it'll be like when they're our age.

Similar but with even bigger smartphones.