Chat about Novel Coronavirus - 2019-nCoV - COVID-19

Hop off the high horse.

Get out from under the bridge.

I’m asking questions for a better understanding of the positions and reasoning it’s how we grow as people and a society.

Try Google, troll. Thank Lucifer for the ignore button.

I’m not hesitant I’m double vaxxed, actually have a passport for a country I do work in so I can eat out at night already.

Just generally looking for answers so I’m better placed to answer the masses/my parents.

Lol

I'm not really bothered if vaccine passports have an impact on unvaxxed people, what I am interested in, is not having to work next to people who have chosen to be more at risk of catching and spreading a dangerous virus.

Do we care that people might be a bit inconvenienced that they can't sink 6 beers and then drive home? It makes their lives easier for sure, but they are more at risk of killing someone on the way home, so why should we put up with this risk?

As an aside, if you were an employer and your staff think covid vaccination is a bad idea, do you really want to employ them? What other poor and/or selfish decisions are they making?

I'm not really bothered if vaccine passports have an impact on unvaxxed people

In regards to their social lives? Or on their decision to take the vaccine?

I think we need to move on to how to convince the vaccine hesitant (I'm more than happy to write off the AntiVaxxx, I don't think they can be swayed) and I agree with the paper I linked to before - a vaccine passport will do more harm to potential uptake than good. My argument isn't about people not being able to enjoy nightclubs... Non issue as far as I'm concerned.

Regarding anything they want to do where I (or anyone else vaccinated) might come into contact with them.

My reading of it was that passports don't change vaccine hesitant opinions one way or the other. If that's the case then I'd rather they were introduced. Once they've realised they can't get into workplaces, pubs, whatever their stance on vaccine might change. It's all well and good saying you still won't get a jab if a passport is introduced but people claim all kinds of shit until things actually impact them.

I drove past an anti-vax picket line outside of a school this week. Had to resist running them all over and reversing.

Personally in favour of free speech and free will but convincing others into a cult should be illegal.

What can I do?

Anti anti vax picket line?

I drove past an anti-vax picket line outside of a school this week. Had to resist running them all over and reversing.

Here's some light reading for you.

What can I do?

Hand in your driving licence for starters.

Do people feel this way about all the other vaccines? As unlike many other countries the UK has no mandatory vaccines currently, they have always been strongly advised but not mandatory

Once they've realised they can't get into workplaces, pubs, whatever their stance on vaccine might change.

I think workplaces etc are bit more complicated but there's no fundamental human right to get a pint so I'd be fine if unvaccinated meant no access to non-essential shops, pubs, restaurants, sports facilities etc. We have probably 10% of staff either shielding or with immunodeficiency of some sort and the 2% of staff refusing to be vaccinated are becoming a major issue for them but our hands are tied under law here and we can't even ask them to have a test legally; all we can do is "force" them to work from home 100% of the time

Do people feel this way about all the other vaccines?

I feel slightly different about things like MMR as they are generally given to children and I don't think it is fair to ban children from places like nurseries based on their parents actions.

Restrictions placed on adults based on their own choices are different IMHO.

. (No need)

I don't think it is fair to ban children from places like nurseries based on their parents actions

Why? The parents made the choice, they and their kids have to live with it. Pre-school is not a basic human right and why should other families have to bear the consequences of the people who don't want their kids vaccinated?

I think we have a duty to provide the best start in life possible to all children to brake various cycles. If I was lord high ruler I'd reinstate Sure Start and there would be no barriers to attendance, including vaccine status, for example.

And bollocks to any children that are immunocompromised that might then catch otherwise entirely preventable childhood diseases.

Most of the time we have managed to have high enough vaccination rates to reach the magic herd immunity that that hasn't been a major issue. I like to think we can keep it that way.

Sadly I don’t think there’s a magical silver dialectical bullet for this. Arguments to and fro only seem to serve to inflame tensions, leaving no one on the opposite side convinced nor better informed. Terms like human rights are thrown about (mainly by trolls) without any actual mention of precise legal precepts nor jurisprudence.

PS- ‘just asking questions’ is troll speech 101. I do think the human rights issue is worth exploring, because involuntary medical procedures MIGHT -can’t emphasise this enough- 1) break human rights laws, and 2) if they’re not surgically legally crafted they might set precedents that can be misapplied in the future. However, a lack of a magical answer here shouldn’t bolster the arguments against the popularly held views.

Recent resurgences in mumps and measles might suggest that wishful thinking does not make for great public health policy.

So my questions are worth exploring but I’m trolling.

I genuinely believed this place was for discussion not to be shot down and name called. Guess I see why a long standing decent member completely deleted recently.

But I guess the human rights in questions are freedom to life, not to be excluded from anything because of your freedom of choices and freedom to choice, the choice to be vaccinated or not.

Again freedom of life as mentioned elsewhere works for both sides of the fence on passports, I’m entitled to not be killed by your choices and I’m entitled to a life whilst I also choose my fate.

The outbreaks are a problem but aren't at epidemic level to the best of my understanding.

The problem is if you ban the children of vaccine refusers from education you are creating an underclass of poverty and crime for the future.

Anyone that wants to die from a preventable disease is welcome to do so, just make you do it over there, where you can't do anyone any harm whilst you see your brave stance against medical tyranny to its natural conclusion.

And don't you fucking dare think about clogging up a hospital bed while you do so.

I genuinely believed this place was for discussion not to be shot down and name called.

Pull the other one.

Just a reminder, Panka is trolling and best ignore.

New account, check
Vast majority of comments doing some shit-stirring on non-cycling threads, check
Playing the victim when called out for being a shit-stirrer, that's a bingo!

Shouldn't the focus be on the stubborn 600'000 (estimate - correct number appreciated) 65+ who are yet to be vax if 3/4 of hospital admissions are not vaccinated (widely reported) ? This demographic are not going to give two hoots about vaccine passports anyway? Again, going by the early indications (posted previously) vaccine may not reduce transmission of delta vs unvax.

"Hospital admission rates increased for those aged 5 to 14 years and groups between 55 to 84 years but decreased in all other age groups (week ending 5 September). Rates remained highest in groups aged 75 years and over and lowest in those aged 5 to 14 years. "

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/healthandsocialcare/conditionsanddiseases/articles/coronaviruscovid19latestinsights/deaths

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