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What specifically melts on extension leads then? Is it the plug overheating due to a poor connection between the pins and the socket, or is it because people leave the extension lead coiled up and it cooks itself? I thought our UK plugs were designed to take a continuous 13A, not max/peak for short periods.

Incorrect.

I asked on two electrician forums (one linked earlier in this thread) and the view was: 13A is max load, and it is not anticipated that this is continuous.

13A is typically 230v * 13A = 2,990 watts, i.e. 2.9Kw (and by the same math you can see that a 32A socket from your fuse box to a wall charger will get you about 7.36Kw, hence the 7Kw chargers).

But on the home 13A circuit nothing is expected to run continuously. Toasters get turned off after 5 minutes, kettles in a similar time, and even an old 3-bar electric heater has a thermostat that whilst you imagine it's on for hours it's on and off according to the thermostat. Washing machines and dishwashers similarly only engage peak load for short periods of time (if you have a smart meter and put a wash on you'll see this).

In fact the only things in your house likely to actually run a continuous (1hr+) full 13A load are going to be your oven and hob (if electric). And those run on their own circuit all the way back to the fuse box.

Would you put the oven and hob into a standard socket on the plugs circuit? It's extremely unwise to do so, but this is what you're doing with an EV.

So what melts? A modern 13A fuse gets extremely hot, the entire 2.9Kw goes through it and it always gets hot with any load but under constant load that heat never dissipates and over a decent period of time (hours) it really gets hot. Then the plug housing gets hot, in my case I melted the plug such that the half around the fuse had melted into the fuse. Then the plastic safety bits on the pins that go into the socket melted. Then plastic behind the socket facade melted.

I'd got away with home charging about 20 times before melting the plug on the granny lead. But it only needs to do it once to burn the house down and so now I tolerate the PITA that is searching for public chargers.

If you have off-street parking, it's an absolute no-brainer to get a Pod Point 7Kw charger. Consider the cost an insurance policy against burning your house down.

All that said, one thing the sparks said was that if your sockets and plugs were all MK standard ones, that it probably would've been OK or more specifically "You'd be surprised what load they can handle". Those take higher temperatures for longer periods. What you want to avoid are plugs that are too rubberised (and yet that is what is on granny leads and "EV safe" extensions) and sockets that have a less heat resistant back panel (and you probably don't know what's on the back of your sockets, I didn't).

Podpoint ordered

Great info thanks .
So
Public charging , is it mainly contactless now or do I need to take a wallet full of cards and sign up to loads of apps .
Thanks

13A is max load, and it is not anticipated that this is continuous

That may reflect the reality of installations found by sparks, but the BS 1363 standard* specifies 1 test of at least 4 hours at 14 amps. It also has shorter tests at 1.6 and 1.9 times the rated current, presumably because fuses aren't guaranteed to blow until well above 13 amps (IIRC 20A).

So yeah, plugs melting at 13A is because they're crap, not because you're using them in a non-compliant way.

If you're concerned about burning your house down, most of the third party granny EVSEs allow you set a slightly lower charging current, and some of them have temperature sensors in the plug, although the latter doesn't help with extension leads.

(* this is the 1995 version. Seeing the current one costs £300)

That may reflect the reality of installations found by sparks, but the BS 1363 standard* specifies 1 test of at least 4 hours at 14 amps

In theory it's OK, but in practise it isn't.

I'm definitely erring on the side of "no amount of being right according to paperwork and standards will prevent my house burning down". I'll be right, and also standing next to a pile of ash - being right isn't worth as much then.

Everything I had was good enough according to spec: the Volvo supplied Mennekes charging cable, the EV rated weatherproof extension lead, the RCD protected circuit and modern fuse box. But still a melted plug and socket.

I'll go for safe over right.

If I had off-street parking I'd have installed a wall charger. I do not so I'm having to use public charging. Works for me (though is annoying).

Public charging , is it mainly contactless now or do I need to take a wallet full of cards and sign up to loads of apps .

Really depends.

If you have ubitricity near you then this is just a smart phone browser + a debit/credit card. I am a huge fan of this network, it's so damn reliable and the time to start charging from when you are plugged in is seconds (time to enter the card details and hit confirm). Additionally a street with 1 charging point tends to have 2-6 charging points dotted around, so it tends to be easy to find a space to charge.

If you have pod point near you then this is just an app, and a lot of pod points are free and the ones that bill are reasonable.

If not... then things like Source and BP Pulse start to require paid accounts and still they charge you for the electric (at way above market rates).

YMMV, I tend to filter Zap Map to a few networks and stick to those (Ubitricity and Pod Point are the ones that work most consistently well).

Thanks for the heads up

I need to figure out charging points where I live.
It's a short private road so the residents will have to pay for installation so it would probably only be a few initially.
People don't have driveways.
There's garages but most are a fair way from the house and you can't park in front of the garages. The houses don't have lofts or basements so most garages are used for storage rather than cars.
There's a couple of lamposts that could be converted. Another issue is that everyone parks down one side of the street. If I get an ev and someone parks in front of the charger I can't charge overnight so can't get to work. I guess a phev would get round this issue.

If I get an ev and someone parks in front of the charger I can't charge overnight so can't get to work. I guess a phev would get round this issue.

Pros and cons.

If you get an EV and have a 300+ mile range, then you likely only need to charge once in a while rather than daily and you're good anyway. Plus actual EVs have far faster charging rates and can utilise specialist infrastructure better (150kw chargers).

PHEV might give you fall back to petrol but then they can only do 20-30 miles pure electric. This now necessitates charging points at both origin and destination and that they're free every day. Sure you fall back to petrol, but unless you accept the daily chore of staying charged you're basically going to still burn petrol.

I have a PHEV and I've hired EVs... there are pros and cons each way. I'd say that if your commute is below 25 miles each way then go for a pure EV with above 300 miles range and you only need charge once a week on decent infrastructure.

If your commute is more than that and you have no access to infrastructure, then the PHEV may well be the better bet.

All good advice thanks.

I'm doing 150miles a day at the moment which I unfortunately have to drive.
No option to charge at home or work currently.
Our street is about to pay to sort out our ageing waste water pipework which is going to clean out the bank balance for a while but I think charging points will be the next thing to be looked at on a couple of years by which point Ill be working locally (fingers crossed) so I can go full elec.

So, having signed up to ONTO, I have a Kona arriving in a few weeks. The plan is to try it for a month or two to see how we get on with an EV before going ahead and purchasing for real.

I'm now looking into charging. We have an Ubitricity Type 2 (5kw) in our street, which is where I plan do most of our charging and 3x Source London bays around the corner. These are Type 2 (7kw) chargers. With the 5kw, I'm assuming it's a case of charging overnight as it'll take over 10 hours to charge.

A question with regards to charging points and parking. The bank of 3x Source chargers I have a few streets away are outside of my parking zone. Do I need to pay for visitor parking when using these points or is it included in the charging?

Sounds good. And be interesting to hear what you think of the Kona.

Cant talk to Source, though i think parking is included (which is why they are more expensive), but with onto you get free charging at shell, bp and instavolt. I've tended to fast charge at the kilburn shell station for free, and then just use the ubricity lamp post (which you have to pay for) either to top up to 100% before a long journey, or when I dont have the 30 minutes free to get the car over to the shell station and back.

with onto you get free charging at shell, bp and instavolt

That’s great. Cheers

The bank of 3x Source chargers I have a few streets away are outside of my parking zone. Do I need to pay for visitor parking when using these points or is it included in the charging?

This varies by council and network.

Some councils offer free parking for EVs that are charging, and some do not.
Some networks include the cost of the parking (they've negotiated it with the council / shopping centre, etc).

For example Ubitricity provides the charging facility with pay as you go power, but it's up to you to check that you can park there whilst you charge.

Pod Point tends to be free or charge a pay as you go power, and they tend to be located in places where it's free parking.

Source Network in London includes parking costs and is charged higher, but this can be a massive downside if the Source charger isn't actually in a controlled parking zone as you're paying a price as if parking were included. If Source have locations beyond the London boroughs then that commitment to cover parking may not apply.

Good info, thanks. I am starting to see why the complicated charging infrastructure is a bit of a headache unless you have off street parking with your own fast charger.

VW E-Up! has been ordered. Now to work out which home 7KW charger to get.

Am I going to regret not getting a smart one?

A family member is an electrician that has recently done an installer course but not installed any yet. I am just after the charger unit which will hopefully be on the side of the garage.

I'm on a research tip at the moment - don't they need to be smart to get the grant?

don't they need to be smart to get the grant?

They have to be on this list: https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1010750/electric-vehicle-homecharge-scheme-approved-chargepoint-model-list.csv/preview

But the answer is that of 517 approved units, 517 are "Smart chargepoints".

But then... if a family member is an electrician and you've got the unit at cost... the benefits of the grant aren't going to be much more than having the family member install it.

A client just dropped this of to get the paperwork done with our DVLA (RDW).
Pretty nice conversion using our HypeE kit and 4 Tesla batteries. He adjusted the power output a bit to save the tires/gearbox/driveshaft. 80kW instead of 18kW is a bit much apparently…

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Return journey tomorrow. 1,100km and a eurotunnel.

Aiming for about 12.5 hours all in. Car reckons only two charges to get from where we are to Calais, which is 852km according to Google. We’ll need to charge their, in order to make it back home.

Charging in France has been excellent. Every place we’ve been has had one or two destination chargers. Always working and always in main car parks which are easy to access the place.

Almost all chargers accept Chargemap pass (something you need to order before you go…) and chargers are usually 22 or 38kw so a quick trip out gets you back to pretty much full.

In 16 days here, I haven’t once had to go out of my way to find or use a charger.

Pretty nice conversion using our HypeE kit and 4 Tesla batteries.

@Libraio have you got any more information about your kit and the DVLA side of things? Edit: spotted the NL on the plates so you won’t have had much to do with the DVLA! I have been mulling over the idea of EV converting a classic for some time.

https://eveurope.eu/en/product-category/ev-conversion-kits-en/universal/

It’s some of this kit, right? Is it that custom diff unit instead of bolting a motor up to the OE gearbox like it’s often done?

@jonny thinking of converting the Fiat?

To access charge points on the ChargePlace Scotland network, you can either download our free ChargePlace Scotland app (iOS and Android) or order an access card, at a one off fee of £10 per card. You can then use your access card to charge your EV for free at a high majority of the charge points on our network.

seems a bit mad... coverage looks pretty decent nationwide too (2500 stations, up from 55 in 2013). maybe I'll learn to drive and cop an ID.3