Formula One ( F1 )

I'm confused. What are the actual rules which will force teams to produce cars looking like this?

Bit of all of that, really!

The spec parts are an attempt to make it a bit cheaper.

The aero changes are to [theoretically] allow the cars to race closer together. Quite a lot of effort has gone into this bit, apparently, and amateur CFD I've seen seems to show that the wake produced by the leading car does not affect a following car or a car to the side anywhere near as much as the current aero regs.

The wheels are a bit divisive. Literally no F1 engineer wants to move away from the current gumball tyres because of the performance advantages they offer. However, it has to be recognised that, from a fashion perspective, no vehicle uses tyres like these any more and people are far more likely to relate to big wheels and lower profile tyres. Another argument is that series like WEC already use larger diameter wheels with lower profile tyres and they do not suffer from performance issues.

Just looked up this sprint qualifying thing. Glad I did.

The Formula 1 weekend is getting a shake-up this weekend in Silverstone, with the introduction of F1 Sprint (or Sprint Qualifying to some). Here’s your one-stop shop to what expect from Formula 1’s trial aimed at enriching the experience of a full Grand Prix weekend, for both fans at the track and around the world, from the tension of Friday’s flat-out qualifying session through to the chequered flag on Sunday afternoon…

What’s the format?

F1 Sprint will be a race run over 100km (in Silverstone's case, 17 laps) and lasting around 25-30 minutes. It is designed to provide a short and fast-paced racing spectacle – similar to a Twenty20 cricket match – with drivers racing flat-out from start to finish without the need to pit.

Points will be awarded to the top three finishers, three for the winner down to one point for third. There won’t be a podium ceremony, as that honour will remain the privilege of the top three in Sunday’s Grand Prix, however there will be a special post-Sprint presentation for the top three.

The finishing order of the race will define the grid for Sunday’s showpiece event – the Grand Prix, where the traditional format will remain unchanged.

Eh? I don't think I'm any clearer. Oh wait, there's a picture. Well why didn't you just say that?

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There’s a good article here on how they have developed the new rules to force teams down that route:

https://www.racefans.net/2021/07/15/why-f1-face-melting-computing-power-is-the-game-changer-behind-its-new-2022-rules/

TL;DR: F1 did a shed load of CFD analysis to set the rules then had a team designing to them and pointing out loopholes, which they then removed. All looks strangely well thought out and holistic compared to previous rule changes…

The wheels are a bit divisive. Literally no F1 engineer wants to move away from the current gumball tyres because of the performance advantages they offer.

Is this the case though? I'd have thought that the lower-profile tyres and more suspension work being carried out by the actual dedicated suspension system would be a benefit. As they have more direct control over the springs/dampers/interters than the bags of air where the characteristics change over the course of the race.

I can see arguments for unsprung weight (though have no figures to compare the larger-wheels/smaller-tyres & vice versa). But can't see the preference for the big-sidewall tyres in terms of performance. Potentially larger pressure swings due to the smaller mass of air inside?

If there's a preference for the current tyre setup over a drastically different one, is that not just likely to be due to the reams of data they have of current/historic use?

TL;DR: F1 did a shed load of CFD analysis to set the rules then had a team designing to them and pointing out loopholes, which they then removed. All looks strangely well thought out and holistic compared to previous rule changes…

I think the best decision F1 has made in a long time is putting someone like Ross Brawn in charge (well, not 'in charge' in charge, but with a strong say in this sort of stuff). This definitely feels like Mr. Double Diffuser's work

Is this the case though? I'd have thought that the lower-profile tyres and more suspension work being carried out by the actual dedicated suspension system would be a benefit. As they have more direct control over the springs/dampers/interters than the bags of air where the characteristics change over the course of the race.

The argument they gave me was that the tyre did a lot of work instead of having to use the suspension. For things like smaller bumps, defects in the track, kerbs etc, the tyre just soaks it up.

I can see arguments for unsprung weight

Yes, the larger wheels add unsprung mass.

If there's a preference for the current tyre setup over a drastically different one, is that not just likely to be due to the reams of data they have of current/historic use?

Almost certainly a bit of that! But they'll adapt quickly enough.

Agreed - it bears his Ferrari and Honda hallmarks too in terms of doing it ‘right’ even if it that means it taking several years.

The argument they gave me was that the tyre did a lot of work instead of having to use the suspension. For things like smaller bumps, defects in the track, kerbs etc, the tyre just soaks it up.

But in that case, the tyre acts as a spring-damper system of limited control. You've got a pair of suspension systems working in serial, surely taking more work away from the system that is more difficult to control and moving it to one that is easier to control is beneficial right?

The tyre soaks up the bumps just like the spring-damper in the suspension system, but in a less controllable manner as both of those are largely defined by tyre pressure, which fluctuates thoughout the race (and at a different rate dependant on the tyre too)

Yes, the larger wheels add unsprung mass.

Figured that'd be the case, be interesting if that & the slightly increased overall mass have much impact on the acceleration. Also (apologies, being super lazy here), but is there any decent estimate over drag losses? Would be interesting to see if braking distances change much, longer braking distances are also a plus for overtaking opportunities.

Edit: Also just spotted they banned inerters, be interesting to hear the reasoning behind that. Half my uni dissertation was on those so I think I'm probably a bit sentimental towards them!

Back on topic, had high hopes for this season for a Merc/Red Bull fight but at this point I'd be surprised if it was anything other than Red Bull switching places with Mercedes for this season. Would happily bet on Verstappen picking up at least half the remaining wins this season.

Nice to have a different team dominating, but would prefer a proper fight instead!

But in that case, the tyre acts as a spring-damper system of limited control. You've got a pair of suspension systems working in serial, surely taking more work away from the system that is more difficult to control and moving it to one that is easier to control is beneficial right?

You are assuming it’s possible to make a suspension system that can react like a tyre to small impacts at very high frequency whilst also dealing with large changes in the weight distribution of the car as it corners, compresses as it goes up hill, has downforce changes as it’s speed changes, etc.

It’s probably doable but it’s way easier, simpler and more reliable to stick a massive tyre at a sensible pressure on.

Sure it's easier to slap a tyre on there, but you give up a lot of control that you would otherwise have with a dedicated spring/damper system to a tyre where you have a single parameter that controls all the characteristics of the system. That single parameter also changes as you heat up the tyres, the rate of change also varies with both tyre type and tyre wear.

Would genuinely be interested of hearing any concrete cases where having the tyre doing more suspension work than the suspension system itself.

I'm no expert, but the majority of my final year in uni was focussed on suspension systems design so I'm not clueless on the subject either!

Also, christ Russell can wring a perfomance out of that car!

Well Friday night qualifying is fun.

Not exactly a Lewis superfan, but kind of glad he held onto that. That would not have been a good pole (/sprint pole/Pirelli Mr. Speedy award/etc.) to lose, nor a good way to do it!

Amazing!

Kinda bummed out Lewis signed for another 2 years. Was hoping to see Russell and Norris in that Merc next year.

but you give up a lot of control that you would otherwise have with a dedicated spring/damper system

What control would you be looking for? The job in this context is to keep the rubber on the road - and the tyre does this when the contact patch is massive and the pressure is comparatively low; it just deforms locally with little impact
on the overall pressure of the tyre because the volume is so large relative to the deformation. So I’m not sure what a rebound / compression system would add.

It’s not that the tyre is doing the suspension systems job, it’s doing a different job that you wouldn’t design the suspension system to do because you can’t really square the circle where it needs to deal with two opposing types of input whilst remaining light, predictable and reliable.

Would genuinely be interested of hearing any concrete cases where having the tyre doing more suspension work than the suspension system itself.

Go karts have no suspension systems at all :)

Go karts have no suspension systems at all :)

Isn't your back doing the suspension work there?

Do you?

Yes, spring & damping rates are basically just a function of tyre pressure in the tyre are they not? Given that this varies as the tyre temp changes, and the rate of change is variable dependant on tyre type and tyre wear. You can surely have more control with a dedicated spring damper system, where you can keep the parameters fixed if you want, or if you want them to change, you can have them change in a predictable, repeatable manner.

When you are talking about high frequency / low impact what does a compression and rebound system designed to ‘manage’ those impacts actually add, except complexity and weight?

Consistent, controllable responses.

It’s not that the tyre is doing the suspension systems job, it’s doing a different job that you wouldn’t design the suspension system to do because you can’t really square the circle where it needs to deal with two opposing types of input whilst remaining light, predictable and reliable.

You've lost me on that bit to be honest.

Go karts have no suspension systems at all

Yep, adding a suspension system to a kart would probably not be a worthwhile idea. Not sure how much of that is weight, and how much is cost. Still, can't really see a case where moving work away from a suspension system to be handled by the tyres would be beneficial though.

Go-kart no suspensions, also they are much smaller dimensions and lighter, the tyres pressure and flexibility of the chassis, on a surface relatively very smooth, is enough to do the job. But yes, no rebound at all. I guess between the F1 and Karts, proportionally speaking, the karts have a smaller margin of mistake in regard to the curve travel speed. Anyway, interesting reading from this thread.

Kart's also need to be stiff cos the lack of a diff means they're designed to lift the inside rear when cornering.

I'm guessing the "karts don't need suspension" comment was tongue-in-cheek

Will be interesting to see how the next few sprint attempts go, but so far I'm liking it personally.

Would be betting on Hamilton taking the win tomorrow with 2 Mercs vs 1 Red Bull.

Great to see Russell finally get a top 10 finish! When there were no points on offer for the top 10...

Not F1 I know, but is this not Top Class?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KsLi7HgSuhI

I think I quite enjoyed it. It’s going to be tough trying to watch it all in the evenings though, I don’t get a chance to watch it live due to dadding.

I take it if the car is ‘retired’, they get to fiddle with it and change the setup. Hence the Perez retirement?