Wheelbuilding / Wheel Building / Wheel build help

You'll also get better ERD measurements using a couple of spokes with nipples threaded to where you want them to end, through opposite spoke holes on the rim and measuring the gap between them, ideally in a couple of places.

Nah, on clincher rims measuring from the bead seat (which is nominal size ±0.5mm or better) is easier and more reliable, since it is not affected by any non-circularity of the loose rim

Really? I'd feel that tape measures are generally just a bit less accurate than getting verniers on stuff, but will take your word for it good enough.

tape measures are generally just a bit less accurate than getting verniers on stuff

Yes, I'd measure from bead seat to desired spoke end (by inserting a nipple into a hole) with the best depth gauge to hand. For most people that is going to mean the depth stick on a digital caliper, but a vernier or a depth micrometer will do just as well. You do have to be careful with tubeless as the bead retaining lip will influence the measurement, but you're only aiming to nail the spoke length, so nearest whole mm is close enough.

So if I just correct this dishing and my DS tension is then >4x my NDS tension.... firey death?

Possibly. If that does happen then you're obviously in a weird kink in time and space where the ordinary rules of physics no longer apply, so it'd be hard to rule anything out!

Faff intensifies...

Decided to follow advice and just dish the wheel. Tried to tighten a drive-side spoke a quarter turn. The alu nipple failed in torsion. Now I can't remove it.

Two options presented themselves: Loosen all spokes and remove dead nipple, then rebuild. Or cut the spoke and replace. I chose the latter, so have ordered a few replacement spokes.

@Brommers You're right, I can't cheat the physics, so I guess as long as the wheel is properly dished then the tension difference will only be 2.33x. The octave pitch difference is also down to differing spoke lengths which I'd forgotten to factor in.

How are you measuring the pitch? Guitar tuner?

Very interesting discussion all thanks

With a piano!

More reading on this topic:
https://www.bikexprt.com/bicycle/tension.htm
http://www.ihpva.org/HParchive/PDF/hp53-2002.pdf

Reading this struggle and learning loads, cheers and good luck @Ndeipi !

@stelfox the iphone/pad app Spoke Tension Gauge which uses pitch/frequency against spoke length and diameter to determine tension might be of interest.

If you're experienced, you've got other data sources I guess but as a newbie in lockdown and no-one around to check my wheel tensions with, the app was really useful. Cost a fiver I think and managed to put it in on a 10 year old ipad somehow. Long discussion of how it works and comparison to spring tensionameters here: https://savetheneurons.blogspot.com/2019/01/your-spoke-tension-meter-is-probably.html

Where's a good place to get spokes these days? I'm after some black (butted) ones for a MTB wheel build

I find Cyclebasket or SpokesFromRyan good.

Ha, I’ve never built a wheel in my life but I’d like to do it at least once. Thanks though and @Ndeipi

ACI Alpinas from Cyclebasket are my go-to round spokes these days. Much cheaper than DT or Sapim, and they seem to work nicely. The central section is slightly thinner than DT Comps/Sapim Race at 1.7mm rather than 1.8mm, but unless you're very marginal on spoke count that shouldn't be an issue. They don't suffer the same degree of spoke wind-up issues as something silly narrow like 1.5mm Lasers.

Theyre great but do wind up more than sapim I find. I’m a lot more careful now but have managed to break a few while building because I wasn’t being mindful enough, having built exclusively with sapim race previously. I’d also contribute it to lack of experience, not finding fault with the spokes really.

Thanks peeps! Very useful. I used the ACI many moons ago for track and road wheels, but sounds like they should be fine on 28h wtb wheels too :)

Thicker (by 0.1mm) spokes on the 'wrong' ie. NDS side is something or nothing to worry about?

Sapim Races at 1.8 vs ACI at 1.7 - I'm trying to use up spokes I'd mis-orderd but if this is a bad idea, I guess I'll have to order again....). Thanks in advance.

I have some wheels with old open pros on them and I'd like to swap them out for a pair of H+Son TB14s. The ERD for open pro is 605 and for TB14s is 610. Is that too much of a difference to use the same spokes or might I get away with it?

Is that too much of a difference

Yes

ah bugger. thanks anyhow, saved me finding out the long way

What are lfgss approved wheel builders? Preferably East London

@broken_777 he’s not south but he’s our own and good enough for fairlight

I think he's probably a bit too good for fairlight.

I'm regularly dealing with 12g & 13g spokes and big nipples 🤭

I'm getting tired of using a cheap multi spoke wrench. I'm guessing the (puctured) Hozan offering is of a similar quality, and is probably as annoying to use. I could be wrong, anyone have any experience with these?

For anyone also regularly working on 12g & 13g, what nipple wrench(s) are you using?

1 Attachment

For anyone also regularly working on 12g & 13g

Well, that counts me out, and I suspect most people here. If ever did have to work with spokes not covered by my Spokeys or hex tool, I'd be after something wingnut shaped, one tool per size, and plastic coated for comfort. All the spoke manufacturers seem to make them, so you can go with your own prejudice, but for example these are the Pro ones:
https://www.pro-bikegear.com/uk/tools-maintenance/tools/spoke-wrench-black

Spokeys are my bag.