Saffron Frameworks Dream Bike

I've used the Ultrastem and Ultrabar in 25.4 on my cargo bike for a few months with no issues. All I had to do was add a drop of loctite to the faceplate bolts.
I've also been using their Ultralever 2 brake levers for years on my MTB and put another set on my cargo bike from new. They're my favourite cable MTB levers by far.
I also only weigh 11 stone though. :)
I have also used Smud saddles and seatposts for years on MTB's and my work bikes with no issues. For me the quality of both companies has given me no concerns...whereas I've broken thomson stems and seatposts over the years. I guess it's just bad luck sometimes.

Edit...I should add, I only stopped using the Extralite stem and bars on my cargo because my custom loop bars eventually arrived, and I also needed a slightly longer stem, and managed to get a cheap Thomson in the right size.

Cheers @Black_Rainbow_Project, sounds like they're tougher than I thought.

i kind of prefer the first bike for elegance, but obviously the second option with sloping, more seatpost are gonna make a more polyvalent ride.
But in this case, not sure what the top tube - stem alignement achieves, it looks at odds with the saddle pointing down

Yeah, shame about the saddle but bike fit is bike fit, I guess.

I think sometimes these subtle details can make a real difference though... It's only really since I got into these projects that I've started to appreciate how much of a puzzle it is to balance fitting requirements with performance and good looks ... which is what everyone wants when they go custom.

A nice example is that black bike: it has a subtle 3 degree slope in the top tube, so there's maybe 2cm more seatpost showing, which makes it look slightly meaner. Apparently 3 degrees is about the maximum you can get away with before the eye notices it isn't horizontal. The custom stem is also 3 degrees to disguise the trickery

I love that kind of stuff.

Yellow paint looks great though. Both designs look good, you certainly couldn't call the 2nd bike inelegant

you're right ! put against the top of the screen and its sloping. very nice. definitly black one for me ! ....and another compact for climbing wednesdays ;)

@jeff80 Yeah they're both amazing bikes... and colour makes a huge difference.
I'm really not looking forward to choosing paint for this.

@Glws And one for every other day of the week! ; )

And IRL you wont always be looking at it exactly flat on... hopefully you'll just be looking at it when you're riding it - I've come to really like the look of bikes with more compact geo, and the extra bit of seatpost does make a difference comfort wise.

What are you thinking so far for paint?

I actually keep my bikes in the room I work in every day... so they are sitting there staring at me all the time : /

Paint-wise, I started off with this... but with chrome forks and rear triangle like a 90s Colnago:

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Enve aero stem has adjstable reach & angle, and is quite slender.

But I'm not convinced it's possible to recreate that exactly enough for it to work... the colours are too specific - the grey would have to be almost exactly the same tone as the purple... and the little touches of pink would have to be exactly as sneaky. I get the feeling that the painter at Cilo was just having a great time that day, and that if anyone tried to copy it they would end up falling well short of the original.

Plus I've switched to carbon forks and polished stainless rear, which upsets the balance of chrome front and rear. To counter that, I thought silver sparkles might be fun (to make the polished stainless blend in more), and have been getting really into what Makino have been doing with thinly glazed colours on top, but only on the sides or tops...

Here are some of my favourites:

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I still like the yellow / purple / pink combo so maybe something with those colours over the top of the sparkles. Or just yellow and pink....

We'll see!

Forgive me if I go on about paint a lot, I paint for a living so this is one area where I tend to get overexcited
: )

Cheers @hoops, I think that Enve might be a bit too spaceship for me!

Matthew's confirmed we're looking for a 10 degree stem... or 12 if we change the tt angle. Which is a shame because I liked the look of the frame as is it was on the computer, but it gets rid of quite a few decent stem options.

So it looks like things are starting to grind back into action with this project.
Managed to get proper numbers from Scherrit after xmas, and yesterday Matthew got in touch with the frame design:

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Oulala!

Any more specifics? I want angles! and tube lengths!

I don't know a huge amount more tbh... speaking to Matthew next week so more then.

This is the second iteration but iirc last time we had 73.5 or 74 degree seat tube angle and 72ish heat tube? But that might have changed.

Tube diameters will be fat enough for 1 1/8th HT but thin enough to look classic / retro ish.

One thing I am relieved to see is a 12 degree stem, so much better range of options.

Time for an update...

I've been faffing around with bike fit since the above drawing was done.

The saddle there is an Antares, which in real life turned out to be totally wrong. I've since been on a bit of a quest to find a suitable replacement and, after much trial-and-error and a professional saddle fitting, have finally settled on a 'Gebiomized Sleak'.... or to be more accurate a 'Syncros Tofino V 1.0', which is the same thing but available in black and with carbon rails.

Apparently Gebiomized outsource their production to Syncros so that's how that works.

Also - Chris Froome uses one, so I have the same arse as him.
(Although my arse opposes fracking and Rupert Murdoch in the strongest possible terms).

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Never heard of them, spendy bum perch, let's hope it's super comfy.
How long til this fine steed is built?

Yeah it's good - been on my Varonha for a while now as I dial it in.

The Gebiomized-badged ones are something stupid like £180 for ti rails... but I managed to find the carbon Syncros version for £116, which isn't too bad in comparison with high-end Fizik / San Marco etc.

Believe it or not I still haven't finalised the numbers for this yet, so still don't know when it'll be ready. I've already missed my place in the build queue so once the numbers are done it shouldn't be too long.

The saddle faff took f*cking ages and of course changes the numbers each time, even if only very slightly.

I was so impressed with the saddle fitter that I let him have a go at my cleats to sort out one or two niggles. But he actually made things worse so I had to rebook to fix it... then he made things even worse again so I gave up on him and went back to Scherrit last week. After every appointment there is a couple of weeks of riding to figure out if it's okay, followed by a wait to get another appointment because all the fitters are booked-up for weeks in advance atm.

Right now I'm riding around on the Varonha with the new saddle in place and Scherrit's new shoe set-up. Hopefully it'll be better than it was - this bike fit stuff has been going on far too long and I'm totally bored of it!

What it really boils down to is breaking my leg a couple of years ago. It threw my previous position out and since then it's been extremely tricky finding something that works. I think the real answer is start physio again. Anyone who's broken a leg before will understand how enthusiastic I feel about that!

I've never had a bike fit (maybe I should?), I just got lucky when I set up my All City, never been more comfortable on a bike, so now I just mimic that set up (with the odd tweak here and there).
Hopefully you'll get it all dialled in soon enough, then building can start on the new frame.
Remember the days you just walked into a bike shop, threw a leg over a couple of bikes, and then rode home on the one you preferred the colour of? Halcyon days.

Anyway, whilst I'm here I might as well update some more:

I've been trying to figure out the lug-work and the paint for this by doing some shonky photoshopping, which has been fun.

One thing that is certain is that this will have a bilaminate head tube. I have no idea how feasible it is in practice but I came up with the idea of having the lower 'lug' extending up the back of the head tube and creeping along the underside of the top tube. The lower lug also starts on the sides of the head tube as opposed to wrapping around the front like a regular lug.

I've asked Billy (who I think will be doing most of the metal work) how possible it is and am awaiting his reply. I imagine the main problem is to get the shape right to go over the lower part of the TT / HT fillet, which is not a problem bilam HTs usually run into.

Something like this... (although I only chose this photo as it has handy colour fades for photoshopping, my bike will be a road bike with different geo and tubes etc... but hopefully you get the idea):

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Bit late to the party here but /subbed - this looks like an amazing build. A mate of mine, now relocated to the SW, has a Saffron (2018-ish) and it's beautiful. IIRC I think he got a bit frustrated with Matthew's attention to minute details and the delay that caused but on the flip side he did say he was totally invested in the build.

As regards fitting, that looks like a hell of a saddle-bar drop on a c.53cm frame!

Ha ha, yeah halcyon days indeed!
I had a fitting with Scherrit maybe 8 years ago cos my legs were getting destroyed every time rode for more than 80km. He totally fixed that in one session and it was the best money I ever spent on cycling. But as I say, I think the broken leg has fucked all that right up!

If you're comfortable already then there's no need for a fitting.

Ooooh, which Saffron is his?
I love Matthew's attention to detail, he's worse (better) than about that stuff I am!

And yes, that saddle to bar drop is quite big, Matthew also pointed that out. I think it'll be more like 85 - 90mm in the final design. If it's too high it makes my right knee track badly, and if it's too low I get shoulder niggles and tight IT bands.

I have a quil stem on my other bike so have playing around with this whilst the saddle faff etc has been going on.