Greenwich foot tunnel?

Also: https://twitter.com/GreenwichLifts

Don’t be fooled by this:

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Is this as bad as before the private contractors took over?

You mean the lifts are working, just the display is wonky?

I think digi photos struggle to reproduce matrix displays.
Bring back split-flap displays ftw.

I posted that from my 'phone, so didn't realise the image was so poor.

On Wednesday night, for about half an hour, both lifts were working, which is why I took the picture.

Come Thursday morning, normal (rubbish) service had been resumed.

I see, didn't pick that up. I'm only an occasional user of the foot tunnel, but I've only encountered broken lifts very rarely. I lived in the Isle of Dogs 25 years ago and compared to then, it's been bliss the last couple of years! This last year I've hardly been south of the river because most of the events I go to haven't taken place, so maybe lift service has deteriorated again in the meantime?

lift service

It has always been a bit up and down.

Badoom. Tish!

I could be wrong, but in the past twelve months, I think the North Tunnel Lift has only been in operation about half a dozen days.

I've been commuting, and hence carrying my bike up the stairs, most days.

Srsly? Only six days in the last year?
I've not been commuting.
Furlough and all that.

I've only just seen that FOGWOFT has disbanded, sad to see.

Fogwoft, chaired by former Labour councillor Mary Mills, had also hoped to help allow considerate cycling in the tunnels – at present cycling is banned but inconsiderate cyclists can only face a fine of £1 under byelaws last revised in 1938. Tower Hamlets Council has refused to approve a bylaw change for the Greenwich tunnel following a local campaign on the Isle of Dogs. In 2017, TfL said the Greenwich tunnel would reach its capacity for cyclists by 2025.

“Major issues remain unresolved. Top of the list are the issues of cycling and of lift maintenance. The first is blocked by the refusal of Tower Hamlets to agree to a revision of the byelaws. Without this change infringement fines are set at 20 shillings; result, zero enforcement. A trial of allowing cycling under certain circumstances remains stalled since it is dependent on the byelaw change.

It's also quite amazing that fixing the lifts depends on getting parts from Germany.

https://853.london/2021/03/23/greenwich-and-woolwich-foot-tunnel-users-group-to-disband-in-frustration/

Amazing that “parts from Germany” is considered a reasonable excuse for them being broken for months/years. It’s not like they’re coming on horseback.

Schindler's Lift?

https://www.schindler.com/com/internet/en/mobility-solutions/products/elevators.html

global britain

Remember the refurbishment of the woolwich foot tunnel lifts?

Rep

While it's annoying when the lifts are out of order, what I'm far more interested in is the issue of allowing cycling in the tunnel, which, ironically, while people continue to cycle there in defiance of the ban, will never happen, because it'll always lead to campaigns like the one apparently organised to stop a revision of the bylaws.

Remember when the Greenwich foot tunnel lifts worked.

Lol

People should definitely not be allowed to cycle through the tunnel. It's far too narrow and while most will be sensible with their speed, some won't and will be clattering into peds. While we do love cycling, walking is infinitely better for the world.

You may be trolling, but I'll bite. How often do you use the tunnel? Just asking, as you must be aware that people cycle through it all the time, ban or not. I walked through twice today and was passed by six riders (lumping them together irrespective of direction of travel) on the first leg and about a dozen on the second. One fairly tall cool fixie rider weaved between me and some walkers coming the other way with about a metre to spare to each. I've also seen roadies going full pelt, which is actually quite a ridiculous sight, and as you may imagine, I think people should behave.

However, I've never heard of a single pedestrian-cyclist crash in the tunnel, either anecdotally, in newspaper articles, or from other sources, and I do keep my ear to the ground. This FOI response from 2018 says:

The Royal Borough of Greenwich has no record of any injuries in the foot tunnel since the technology trial was introduced.

(This covers 2016-2018.)

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/greenwich_foot_tunnel_usage_and

It's not just the foot tunnel. While close-passing incidents do occur, pretty much every study ever on shared use has concluded that levels of conflict are insignificant and that crashes are extremely rare, and this doesn't just include relatively simple (e.g., junction-less) environments like the Foot Tunnel, but parks and other public spaces where pedestrians and cyclists mix. There are decades of data on this, but people still make simplistic assumptions like yours above.

Cycling absolutely should be permitted in the foot tunnel. Bans on cycling, e.g. in parks, usually only have the result that meek people who like following rules, and wouldn't under any circumstances present a problem to walkers, don't cycle there, while your resident ne'er-do-wells, those who caused any alarm that occurred in the first place, will simply not obey and will cause worse problems than if cycling were permitted to all.

The problem, as I hinted above, is that while people continue to flout the rules, there is absolutely no chance of the ban on cycling being lifted. The rules, however, were made for a long-gone time when the foot tunnel saw much heavier levels of foot traffic, i.e. workers going to work in the morning (unlike the example on Tyneside that I posted above, where two tunnels were built, one for riders and one for walkers), and there was no DLR or other means of crossing the river there. It is high time that the bylaws were adapted for modern times and completely changed circumstances. That requires that people stop cycling through the foot tunnel at busy times so that people get the impression that they're not completely lawless. For full disclosure, as I mentioned somewhere earlier, I cycle through late at night when there's no-one around and walk at all other times, which I don't think does harm to the cause.

If cyclists only had plates they could install average speed cameras… I heartily agree with you, Oliver—and behave similarly, ie push my bike when there are pedestrians, silently tutting passing cyclists.

Having used it for years can remember the lift guys would shut the doors on cyclists who were ramping along… I’m in the ‘ride it when it’s quiet’ group - it’s not as if you’re saving that much time. Woolwich though - have never walked it and never had to

Agreed - the rule needs to be something like 'Courteous cycling permitted - pedestrians have priority.' Some variant of that works (or at least is on the signs) along various bits of the Thames Path, so I assume it's got some official traction.

As Oliver says, cunts will be cunts whatever the rules say, so the only purpose of a prohibition is to criminalise (well, turn into bylaw-breakers) those riders who ride courteously while disobeying the rule, and to delay and intimidate those riders who obey it even when it is pointless.

The fact there's vanishingly little enforcement (and almost none practically possible) simply confirms how futile the current bylaws are.

The lift operators had it right: be a dick, and you're walking up the stairs; ride slowly or scoot, give way to pedestrians or walk when it's busy, and you're fine to get in the lift.

It's not unreasonable for cycling to be prohibited in the tunnel. The tunnel is 2.7m wide and if you have a cyclist coming each way and a ped coming each way they won't all fit. The only sensible option is for everyone to be a similar moving speed pedestrian.

Maybe if there were less cyclists in there more pedestrians would walk through? As for injuries, sure none have be reported but the idea that no cyclist has ridden into a pedestrian is absurd. I've seen a couple of close passes down there myself (very infrequent user) so it must be happening, albeit without any serious injury.

I'm as pro cycling as anyone but IMO this is just not the space for it.